The great glue debate...settled??

[Larry Messaros]

Brick,

My dad built a 10' car top boat out of plywood about 50 years ago. He used the Weldwood glue mixed from powder (can't remember the exact name) with little brass ring shanked nails. We used that boat for everything from fishing in the salt chuck to water skiing on the lakes (only when I was a young, light kid!) and none of the joints were fiberglassed. Looking back, it was amazing what we put it through, maybe not quite like falling out of the back of a pickup, but it still stood up very well with only glued joints.

[BrwBier]

...all the adhesives have their places and uses... and BE SURE to read and follow all directions for the application at hand...
madjack

How am I to get anything done when I have to stop to read instructions all the time

[SaGR]

I want the glue that works best on sloppy joints!!!!

Amen to that!

[sdtripper2]

Video presentation to show how tech they were in the tests.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... x?id=28853

Of course they don't give the results on the video, so I want to summarize them.

Results*
Type 1 PVA (Titebond III) - strongest
Slow set epoxy (System Three) - 99%
PVA (Elmer's carpenter's) - 95%
Polyurethane (Gorilla Glue) - 58%

The most surprising finding to me is that the Polyurethane glue is
much weaker than any of the yellow glues or the epoxy!

If you want all of the details you should grab a copy of the magazine and
or sign up on line for the magazine and get the results immediately.

I found the testing on the Video to be very thorough.

The results are very scientific.
After reading the article it is good to know that Titebond III
and even Elmer's carpenter's glue are stronger than Gorilla glue.

Video presentation to show how tech they were in the tests.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... x?id=28853

Thank you Joanne for sharing the results with the forum. The glue
debate will go on, however these tests will convince many to choose the
other three products before Gorilla glue for their trailer builds in the future.

[T-TownTear]

Hmmm...
I wonder why Weldwood's Plastic Resin Glue wasn't in the mix???
I've been using that stuff since my high school days.
I like that it comes as a powder and you add water... You control the viscosity.

Wondered the same thing myself. I have used this stuff for years.
I built a wood airplane with the stuff, it is the only glue that is locally available that is FAA certified in aviation use.
It is getting harder and harder to find locally though, I have only found one hardware store around here that carries it.



Jody

[Steve_Cox]

Thanks Joanne, good report

The debate over what works best is over.... The matter of preference is still open....... Now if they would just grow lumber that is as strong as the glues .....

[doug hodder]

I've always sort of wondered about these type of tests in the woodworking magazines...Does anyone else think that any advertising dollars spent, just might influence how a test might turn out?, or for that matter, who the financial backers of a magazine are...I'm not saying anything is bogus, but I've gotten stuff that came highly recommended before based on a test and I thought it was crap. In the latest edition of Woodworkers Journal...titebond has the full page ads, I don't get Fine Woodworking any more so can't see how the dollars shake out in that publication...not a conspiracy theorist...just something I've noticed. Doug

[Miriam C.]

Someone has to pay for the test. I really believe researchers are inclined to keep their jobs. MHO. I used tightbond because it didn't oozzzzeeeee out all over the place.

[sdtripper2]

Doug ...

The testing isn't clear if there was a double blind test. However it appears, by
looking at the video, one group cut the three types of joints and glued them and the
second college group did the pressure testing. I guess if they wanted to
flat out lie about the testing ... that is sure possible. To be skeptical of
motives, big business and Government in today's world is healthy, as we the
people have been burned, and this may be an example. However a glue test,
may not be worth the woodworking magazine's reputation if the results were
found to be bogus and trumped uP for the benefit of one companies product over another.

[doug hodder]

Steve...I'm not suggesting that it is bogus, statistically, it's just about a dead heat...I think it is more of a marketing program. "Hey we spend a lot of money with you on our advertising, how about a glue test featuring one of our newer products?" In the video...the sample shown of the failed joint is an epoxy joint, their closest competitor for strength...for anyone watching the video, the last impression left in your mind is that..."look, the epoxy failed." I'm sure that the Poly glue had a much more spectacular failure since it came in last, but it isn't in their league for sales no point in showing it in a 3 min video.

Advances are being made regularly in the adhesive industry and I think they are wanting to protect their market share. West System recently introduced their G/flex epoxy system and this might be a direct response. In Wooden Boat magazine, Franklin doesn't even advertise there, and I would think they would with it being a waterproof glue, (at least in the issues I checked) but that might be a small market for them anyway and they want to protect their home turf...

None of it really matters, for what we are doing, any of these glues when used properly will work fine for sticking a couple of pieces of wood together. Just pick out the one that suits your needs, and budget. Doug

Sorry for being Devils Advocate!!!

[Podunkfla]

Doug... I've been a long time reader/subscriber of Fine Woodworking... So I have a pretty good idea about their credibility when it comes to testing. Of all the woodworking mags FW is about the only one I would trust 100%. I think since their targeted market is mostly professionals and accomplished amateur woodworkers, they take great pains to be accurate and unbiased.

I remember when they tested router bits a while back; they really slammed a major manufacturer. The maker of Jesada router bits was very unhappy... and vocal about it. Turns out they had allowed Jesada three tries to get it right by letting them send in more router bits. They all failed the test quickly. Some bits actually broke. While Whiteside bits breezed through the same test flawlessly... even multiple times with the same bit. A number of other far cheaper brands also did very well too; making it apparent that price was not always a good way to choose router bits. Jesada was a major advertiser. Whiteside was not. The Jesada company was started by the former CEO of CMT router bits imported from Italy. And, he claimed he made his own Jesada bits right here in Florida. Obviously, this hurt his business bigtime... and was a major boon for Whiteside and others.

By the way... Whiteside still makes the best bits I have ever used by far.

PS: The test was a tough one... Plowing a deep dado with a straight bit, line after line continously with a CNC controlled router to cover a whole sheet of 4 x 8' melamine coated particle board... Evil stuff that just kills router bits.

[sdtripper2]

Doug:

I See your point and your advocacy of the gray area where the truth can be
explained with example and deed in a way to shed a better light on an
preferred advertisers product without saying anything negative about the
preferred advertisers competitors. The unsaid or what is shown examples,
speak volumes to the subconscious mind, would be your tact? Thus giving the
preferred advertiser an edge when a potential customer steps uP to the isle
of wood glues.

Brick and I agree that the Mag's rep is important to them but the
manipulation of pictures and the way things are explained can shed a more
positive light on a preferred advertiser is your (Doug's) contention.

Well, in this world of grays ... your Devils Advocacy is well taken ~

[doug hodder]

Brick...like I said...I not suggesting it's bogus...only that it might indeed be part of a marketing program, a positive test only sells more glue. I'd rather see a comparison test of the epoxies... the aliphatics...and the urethanes out there. And who knows, maybe Whiteside coughed up the dough for a test... I'll shut up now... Doug

[asianflava]

Maybe CSR needs to do a test. They don't have any advertising so that they can remain neutral. Whether it's true or not, I don't know.

[Guy]

Dear All,

Taunton Press, which owns fine woodworking and fine homebuilding and a number of other magazines has been known for years to be extremely reliable. One of the major reasons they have this rep is that many have tried to buy them off and failed. The results should show you that they are not swindled by the latest and greatest new fangled advertised products. They never test all the products available in their reports, usually just the most common. If they tested all the products available the darn magazine would cost more than the Robb Report.

By the way, I was so dumb and sucked in by advertising that I used a LOT of Gorilla glue. I even waited to do some things until I could spend money on Gorilla Glue. WHAT A FOOL. I wish Joanne could change the date of this thread to last year and then I could really beat myself up.