Another question about generators

[sdtripper2]

Hi Lynn,

I'd check into that a/c unit. The concensus from a lot of experienced generator owners is that the Honda 2000 is too small to run an a/c unit, and although you might be able to run it with the 2000, you could well burn out the compressor. Typically campers with a/c will run two 2000's in parallel... or a Honda 3000 ($$$$'s), but thats a lot of cost and weight to run a/c...

5 hours usage on a tank sounds about right. I might get 6 hours, but I have mine just to recharge the batteries. Reality using it for this purpose, the generator isn't doing much work after the initial charge. I'd wonder if you would even got 5 hours putting that kind of load on a generator...

Dave:

What size A/C unit are you basing your opinion
How many BTU's
I know the A/C unit in your Airstream (Most Likely 13K BTU's) would have
to have the parallel Honda connect for the EU2000 for sure.
And so, your council would be correct for that operation.

Considering the smaller A/C units usually used in TD's:
Are you of the opinion and making a blanket statement that NO A/C units
say 2000, 5000 or 7000 BTU's should be run on the EU2000

[Trackstriper]

Gotta go with Steve on the AC size issue.

Here's my thinking, and I could be wrong somewhere here but I don't mind correction. I don't yet own a Honda inverter generator. My last Honda generator was an EB6500 which was a moose but great for serious contractor work, sold it to a buddy.

Last fall I did cart my 5000btu (530 watt) Kenmore window shaker to an RV show where a local Honda dealer was demonstrating the inverter series generators. We hooked up the AC to the 2000i and it started right up and the compressor cycled in just fine. Blew cold air. Then we switched the AC over to his 1000i (900watts continuous output) generator. Same results. Either generator would "blip" when the compressor cycled in, then would settle down to a really fast idle, perhaps 2200-2500 rpm, maybe less. Neither engine "worked" much. Both were about the same apparent loudness...not much. Both generators would start the AC in "Eco mode".

While I won't recommend this to another member of this forum, when it does come time to buy I will probably go with the 1000i because it will handle all of the work I would ask of it and it is smaller and lighter...a good bit easier to move around. Try it. If I was going to run large power tools I'd go with the 2000i, but I'm looking for a dedicated generator to run AC while parked at a jobsite if I have no shore power. I don't think you could go wrong with the 2000i for most TD or TTT applications.

[Trackstriper]

Arne wrote:

"Interesting.. that means the honda has to have a fuel pump in it.... otherwise, the fuel would not flow from the aux tank into the gen..."

Steve wrote:

"The vacuum created in the Honda's gas tank as it uses it's fuel will draw more
fuel from the outboard tank. That is instead of letting air in by the switch on
the Honda cap so the fuel will flow into the engine, in a syphoning action
through the hose from the outboard tank.

The air intake now is on the outboard tank. As the gas lowers in the Honda
EU2000 there is a vacuum created and air pushes down on the outboard
tanks gas, as the pressure is less in side the Honda, it syphons gas through the
hose, filter and in through the cap on the outboard tank. Thanks to the 15
pounds per square inch air pressure exerted through the hole in the non
hose air inlet cap of the outboard tank.
All this is based on the cap on top of the Honda generator is air tight."


OK. I've never had any luck with things siphoning uphill.

I can see how this system would work if the auxiliary tank is slightly higher than the generator's main tank. More specifically, it should work if the height of the bottom of the aux tank matches the height of the bottom of the generator tank. The siphon action would simply blend the two tanks together. If the aux tank is placed on the ground and is lower than the generator tank, the fuel flow should be toward the auxiliary tank since it is vented and the generator tank is "vented" at the float valve in the vented float chamber.

My concern is that if the fuel level of the auxiliary tank is located higher than the generator's gas cap, AND the connections and cap seal are not 100% good 100% of the time you will have fuel leak over the running generator. Bad news.

Help me understand if I'm missing something here. This one's been twisting my brain.

J.B.

[madjack]

1) no air vent in the gennie tank, the vent is now hooked to the fuel pickup on the aux tank...2) as fuel is used, it creates a vacum in the gennie's onboard tank...3) aux tank on ground is connected to main tanks vent...4) fuel pickup is in the bottom of aux tank...5) vacum in the gennie's main tank pulls fuel from aux tank...6) vent is in the aux tank so that the air pressure in aux tank remains equalized...6) there is no actual "siphon" action involved, it is actually a "suction" action......
madjack

[Trackstriper]

MJ,

Thanks. You made me think harder. I was all set to argue point #2 with you, figuring this generator has a simple gravity flow fuel system, in which case I couldn't figure out where the vacuum was coming from. But Arne, bless his soul, actually had it figured out. The EU2000i actually does have a vacuum powered fuel pump according to page 58 of the owner's manual. Ain't the Internet great? That would pull fuel from a somewhat lower auxiliary tank, and would not create a leakage problem at the cap. If there was a leak at the cap it would draw air, not leak gas, so all is OK.

Should work fine if the aux tank is not too low for the fuel pump to draw from. I would still be careful not to use an auxiliary tank that allowed its fuel level to be higher than the gas cap, but an outboard engine tank set at the same level as the generator wouldn't be a problem. Great solution for extended run time.

I stand corrected.

J.B.

[Arne]

I used a similar system on my house boat... the std. tank was 6 gallons.. I installed a 16 gallon tank at the front, with a run to the back, into the std tank.... so as the gas was used up in the small tank (with the vent closed), it would pull gas front tank... once, the line between the tanks got kinked, the engine quit, and when I looked around, the std tank was partially collapsed from the vacuum.. easily fixed, but I was surprised how deformed the top of the std tank was from the minor pump vacuum...... makes me think again about vacuum bagging my tear...

ANYWAY:.... Can I run my Honda 2000 on economy mode, running a 5,000 a/c unit? Or will it cause a problem with the a/c unit or the honda?

Somewhere above, it said not to even try to run a 5k a/c with a 2000, which surprised me...

If I can run on eco mode, obviously, the gas will last longer, but don't want to injure either unit...

But, I will convert my 2000 to use an auxiarly tank... I have a 5 gallon tank I can use that will extend the run time considerably...

Also, I think the owners manual for the 2000 said something about an automatic fuel valve that closes when the unit is not running.. will have to check that out in the manual.

[Nobody]

Arne - The way I understand it most small generator engines must operate at a constant rpm in order to turn the generator/alternator sufficiently to provide the 60hz current @ 115vac they're rated for. The Honda Eu series generators use a different system (Inverter??) to provide stable, clean power at reduced rpm's. When the 'Eco' switch on my Eu2000i is activated, the engine runs much slower/quieter & the rpm's only increase as needed to provide the necessary power 'drawn' by whatever appliance is in use. Last year on an Antelope hunt in Montana we set my little Honda just outside one corner of our 12x14' "outfitter" tent & ran the ext cord under the wall to a fused 'power strip' inside the tent. We had elect lights & a small microwave hooked up. The generator 'ran' from dusk 'til bedtime each evening & was so quiet we could talk at normal conversation level without difficulty. When someone put something in the MW & hit the switch, you could hear the generator rpm's increase but never to a level that interfered with our normal conversation & when the MW shut off the generator would 'cycle' back down to the very quiet level. The Eu2000i provides 1600w (13.9amps) continuous, & 2000w (17.39amps) surge @ 115vac. Depending on the 'draw' of your air conditioner the Honda Eu2000i should handle it with no problem even in the 'Eco' mode as the rpm increase is very quick when 'called' upon. We also charged the battery for my hunting partner's CPAP, once using the 'built in' 8amp charger on the Honda & another time using a 10amp external charger. Neither method resulted in a marked increase in rpm's or fuel consumption, especially compared to the noticeable increase when using the MW. I'd probably have the 'Eco' switch in the off position the first time or two I started the AC just to see how it handled the load but I don't believe you'll have any problem there.

[Arne]

Thank you for the information....

I did find the part about the vacuum pump in my manual, on pg. 60...

[sdtripper2]

Arne & J.B.

I took away my post about the extra fuel tank gas flow, as it was confusing in regards to the fuel pump action of the EU2000i.

[Alphacarina]

Honda advertises the "Operational capacity on one tankful: Approx. 4 - 15 hrs. depending on load" - I would suspect the 500 watt load from a 5,000 BTU window unit would get you much nearer the 15 hours than the 4 hours . . . . I would guess if the A/C ran in the full cool mode ALL NIGHT, the little generator would probably go about 8 to 10 hours on a tankful . . . . longer if the A/C is cycling on and off

Don

[Arne]

I printed off the stuff from the link that showed how to do the aux fuel tank. I ordered an extra cap from the local dealer, and a nearby boat shop has 3 & 6 gallon tanks.. so before I leave on my trip in a week or so, I'll put it together.

Simple enough to do, but finding the unfamiliar parts/hoses/filters will take a bit of doing...

The way he did it, he had the hose off the gen straight up. I'm going to see if I can find a right angle fitting so it goes off to the side....

It is a great idea.... now that I know the gen has a pump.

[Arne]

Wish I had thought about this sooner.. am going go do the aux gas tank thing.. can get 3 or 6 gallons... would like 3 gallons to keep it small, 6 for longer run time....

Am going to a boat place, they have both... will proabably get the 6 gallon... I can always just put 3 in it so it doesn't kill my back... but can't put 6 into the 3 gallon.....

I assume the 3 gallon, based on previous input, would give about 24 hours of constant run time.. since I'll be using it off and on for 2.5 weeks, think the 6 gallon is the way to go..

have all the parts except tank and cap... getting tank today, will get cap tomorrow or Thursday, I hope.. if the dealer comes through.

[Alphacarina]

I assume the 3 gallon, based on previous input, would give about 24 hours of constant run time.. since I'll be using it off and on for 2.5 weeks, think the 6 gallon is the way to go..

I would shut it off at least twice per day to check the oil - I think I can get hearly that from the onboard tank, so adding anything more an an extra gallon or so is probably overkill

Don

[BobR]

Gotta go with Steve on the AC size issue.

when it does come time to buy I will probably go with the 1000i because it will handle all of the work I would ask of it and it is smaller and lighter...a good bit easier to move around. Try it. If I was going to run large power tools I'd go with the 2000i, but I'm looking for a dedicated generator to run AC while parked at a jobsite if I have no shore power. I don't think you could go wrong with the 2000i for most TD or TTT applications.

I am the owner of both a Honda EU1000i and EU2000i. The 1000 will not be adequate for a 5000 BTU A/C. It may start it a couple of times but once the head pressure comes up IT WILL OVERLOAD. The 2000i on the other hand has never failed to run my A/C even on the 100 degree, 90% humidity days.

[Gerdo]

I have a Honda EU2000i and run my a/c off it. It just purrs with tha a/c full crank. I should know, we used it during the day in Moab at 118* for a few hours a day. It will pull your windowshaker a/c No problem. I'm not sure how much fuel I used.