I was thinking about putting a 5# bottle on the tongue

[brian_bp]

so do you guys get the same bottle back then? Over here we buy a full bottle then when it`s empty we take to a dealer who exchanges for a full one and charges the refill price.

In my area, it is becoming increasingly common for people to use this type of exchange service, which is offered by mass-market chains (such as Wal-Mart and Home Depot) as well as gasoline stations. It is much more expensive than bulk filling (getting your own tank filled), it is only available for common 20-lb "barbecue" tanks, and currently the tanks in the exchange generally are not equipped with an OPD (overfill prevention device). Some brands are significantly under-filled, promising to put only 17 lbs in a 20 lb tank (although I don't know how much is actually in them).

Many gas stations still offer bulk propane refilling, as a sideline to filling vehicle tanks, but in the last year or two many only offer propane for limited hours each day, since the "trained" staff are not available (there's a labour shortage here).

Specialty propane stores, which do bulk fills among other services, are getting rare. Twenty years ago propane was much cheaper than gasoline, so many vehicles were converted to run on it. Now, propane is about as expensive as gasoline (for the same energy value), so the propane is no longer used as a fuel for road vehicles, and the associated businesses are disappearing.

I got an empty one with the valve missing from a scrap yard, and took that for exchange, saved about £35

£35 would buy three new 20-lb propane tanks - with the appropriate valves - at Costco here. The tank exchanges are not supposed to accept incomplete or expired tanks, or at least do not give any credit for them; the price of a used and refilled tank without a trade-in is about double that of a brand new tank with fill from Costco.

[brian_bp]

There are always places around that will fill it up on a per lb rate. Sometimes ya just gotta ask.

In Virginia, perhaps, but not here. I called just about every business offering propane in the Yellow Pages, and asked people in the industry, and propane is just not sold by actual volume (or weight) for portable tanks.

Here, the flat rate does depend on the tank size: a 20-lb tank is assumed to take 20 lb, a 30-lb tank to take 30 lb, etc. - regardless of how much is actually needed to fill it. I'm not sure what the current practice is for small tanks - it could be the price of a 20-lb, it could match the nominal size of the tank... who knows.

The same station which charges a flat rate to fill a common 20-lb tank will meter propane into a vehicle tank and charge by standardized volume (which means essentially by weight), but when they fill the portable tank they don't even run the propane through the meter.

[brian_bp]

...There are lots of U-Haul places around and they advertise that they don't charge extra for partial fill-ups or for fill-ups of less than 20 lbs.

Here (the vicinity of Edmonton, Alberta) none of the U-Haul locations even list propane as a service, let alone do it better than other companies.

...If one company is willing to sell propane that way, others will soon follow.

While competition is good, in this case the trend is the other direction, away from any kind of bulk service to tank exchanges, which don't have the small tanks.

[S. Heisley]

brian_bp wrote:

While competition is good, in this case the trend is the other direction, away from any kind of bulk service to tank exchanges, which don't have the small tanks.

Maybe the surge in tiny trailers will get big enough that things will change up in Canada, too. Until then, maybe you can use the propane fill-ups as an excuse to spend your vacations in the USA, with us!

[Norm]

Here in Cornwall Ontario, i found one truck stop which fills my 5lb tank by weight. It costs very little to top it up. I also use an infra red marine style portable BBQ, and this thing goes a long way on a 5lb tank.

Norm

[Dale M.]

so do you guys get the same bottle back then? Over here we buy a full bottle then when it`s empty we take to a dealer who exchanges for a full one and charges the refill price. I got an empty one with the valve missing from a scrap yard, and took that for exchange, saved about £35

We have same options available to us in US... Its usually about $18 to $20 dollars (US) exchange.... "New" tank purchase and fill up at "exchange" place usually runs about $40 (US)...

New tanks are about $30 and filling from "bulk" tank is want ever dealer wants to charge, meaning by the gallon or weight... Some have minimum charge to fill then its by the gallon after minimum is meet...

Dale

[Dale M.]

Some things to know...

Propane weight 4.25 pounds (US) to the gallon.

The popular #20 pound tank holds 4.7 gallons (US) with OPD valve.

To check how much propane is in a tank, weight and subtract the TARE weigh of tank (found on safety collar - should be something like 18 to 20 pounds) from weight scales reads... OR pour hot water down side of tank and feel for the level where the temperature change is, that is level of propane "liquid" in tank...

Propane is a heavier than air gas the pools in low places if "ventilation" (fan or breeze) does not dilute it.

Propane in explosive situation expands 277 times it initial volume when ignited , the is why it creates such a wonderful fuel/air bomb.

Pressure in tank is temperature sensitive, as temperature goes down, pressure goes down.. Makes inaccurate readings on pressure gauges when gauge reads empty that is about only time gauge is accurate...

Dale

[Mark & Andrea Jones]

Some things to know...

Propane weight 4.25 pounds (US) to the gallon.

The popular #20 pound tank holds 4.7 gallons (US) with OPD valve.

To check how much propane is in a tank, weight and subtract the TARE weigh of tank (found on safety collar - should be something like 18 to 20 pounds) from weight scales reads... OR pour hot water down side of tank and feel for the level where the temperature change is, that is level of propane "liquid" in tank...

Propane is a heavier than air gas the pools in low places if "ventilation" (fan or breeze) does not dilute it.

Propane in explosive situation expands 277 times it initial volume when ignited , the is why it creates such a wonderful fuel/air bomb.

Pressure in tank is temperature sensitive, as temperature goes down, pressure goes down.. Makes inaccurate readings on pressure gauges when gauge reads empty that is about only time gauge is accurate...

Dale

I've got a question: My understanding (from the propane distributor) is that they are only allowed to fill the tank to 80% capacity - to allow for expansion and contraction of the propane due to heat/cold. So, does that mean that a "20 lb tank" actually only has 16 lbs (3.76 gals) of propane or does a "20 lb tank" actually have a capacity of 25 lbs (5.9 gals) and actually holds 20 lbs (4.7 gals) of propane?

Andrea.

[brian_bp]

My understanding (from the propane distributor) is that they are only allowed to fill the tank to 80% capacity - to allow for expansion and contraction of the propane due to heat/cold.

True.

So, does that mean that a "20 lb tank" actually only has 16 lbs (3.76 gals) of propane...

No...

... or does a "20 lb tank" actually have a capacity of 25 lbs (5.9 gals) and actually holds 20 lbs (4.7 gals) of propane?

... that's it!

If anyone wants to confirm this, all the required information is stamped on the ring at the top of the tank. The volume of the tank may be indicated in actual volume terms (gallons or litres), or (perhaps only in older tanks) as the "water weight", which is the weight of water which would completely fill the tank.

For instance, one of my "20 lb" tanks had (it's outdated and gone now) a volume of 21.6 litres stamped on it; 80% of that volume (17.28 L) of propane would weigh about 20 lb. Another (even older) one was marked with a water capacity of 47.8 lb; that much water occupies a volume of 21.7 L ... again, 20 lb of propane.

[jimqpublic]

I have the same 5# bottle pictured in the first post. My local U-haul charges by the gallon so I don't pay a surcharge- though I usually have a 20# bottle to fill at the same time.

The little guy is very handy for running a propane lantern. The wide base makes it very stable compared to the tall 10# size.

The problem is that it is quite hard to fill very full. To prevent the OPD float from triggering early the attendant has to barely open the fill valve. Otherwise it takes only about 3# of propane.

For this reason I suggest one of the 10# bottles if you want something smaller than the 20# standard.

And yes, either the 5# or 10# size will cost twice as much as a 20#

[Mark & Andrea Jones]

... or does a "20 lb tank" actually have a capacity of 25 lbs (5.9 gals) and actually holds 20 lbs (4.7 gals) of propane?

... that's it!

Thanks for the clarification! At least they call it a "20 lb tank" (what they can actually put in it) instead of a "25 lb tank". Can you imagine trying to explain to a blonde (Caution: using a stereotype here!) why you can't put 25 lbs of propane in a "25 lb tank"? The confusion could be funny to watch. . . . .

Andrea.

[spinnernut]

Around here I have some 100 pound bottles filled and i take my #5 and #10 in with them and the man chuckels at the small ones and say they eat free tell they grow up

[brian_bp]

There's a absolutely-not-tiny travel trailer available here (the Travelaire Roughneck NT-300) which is typically used on remote job sites, and which comes with a 420 lb capacity propane tank on the tongue. There are some tough guys working the rigs, but even they can't sling that one in the back of the pickup and take it to get filled! 5 pounds of propane wouldn't be missed if it leaked from that thing during filling.

(I assume that the trailer is filled when it is relocated, and otherwise only by a bulk propane tanker which comes to the site.)

[mikeschn]

According to the plan view that has the same diameter as a 20# bottle. How tall would that bottle have to be to be a 420# bottle?

Mike...

[spinnernut]

wow my 100# bottles are the same diameter as the 20#and the 100# bottle is 50 inches tall, that about 16 ft tall Wow