Axle Length...Not A Clue About Wheel Offsets

[Guest]

Hmmm... Maybe stacking that mounting bracket on the bottom of the frame rail would help matters out in the ground clearance department...

(I only get confused when I have to make a decision and the more choices... the more confused...)

[Nitetimes]

Hopefully this will help some.
If you look at this drawing you should get a good idea of the measurements you need to order a torflex axle. The most important ones being C & B, let's start with C, this measurement should be at least a half inch wider than your over-all outside dimension of your cabin, B should be no more tha one half inch wider than the trailer frame. Now once you take into account these measurements you will see how close you can get to the hub-face that you want. This is where the offset on your wheels comes into play. The distance from the hub-face to the inside of the swingarm should remain constant at just under 6" (for this particular axle) so depending on the tire you use you might want to get a wheel that is offset in a little to bring the tire in closer to the trailer body there-by narrowing your fenders a little bit.
I hope this clears things up a little, it is really hard to explain this without seeing a picture of it.



I haven't checked the specs on the stub axles so I'm not sure how much of this applies to them.

Now with this being said, this is why it is MUCH easier to use a straight axle and springs, figure out your hub-face, mount your springs where you want them, put the axle on and you're done. Lots less brain wracking to get it right.

[Nitetimes]

Also as far as ground clearance, if you go with 14" tires which average 26-28" high and you used a 22.5 degree down axle, the least you would ever have is right around 13".

[Guest]

Thanks Nightimes,
I'm well aware of the possibility of needing clearance for the swing arm,
even if it means notching out the skirt area where the exterior portion of the wall drapes down over the frame rails. I'm going to do up a diagram and send it to Flexiride.
I understand the backspacing thing and all that now.
What I really won't know until them babies are mounted on the wheels is how much the tire is going to set out past the wheel and I am going to get them first before proceeding with Flexiride.
I'm just going to have to find a place that will be able to offer radial tires. and not just bias ply.

Thanks everyone for all your input.

[Cary Winch]

Dean,

The trailer tires they were showing you were just that. They are designed to have a stiff sidewall. On a tandem axle car hauler or something it helps to keep it stable. The stiffer the better on something like that. But, with a teardrop we have the advantage of super stability due to its weight transfer and axle geometry. So, you want the opposite. A soft sidewall to help absorb shock. Go with a radial car tire. Youll save a bit too and have way more than enough rating.

Go with a 6" rim. Fender clearance issues can be a pain.,

Don't worry about the factory swing arm set angle. If they want to set it at 10 degree (that is settled, it is 12 degree installed) that will be fine. They are installed on a splined shaft and you just take out the cinch bolt slide the arm off and back on on a different spline. You can set it within I think 8 degrees. When we order them they don't even put the arms on, we do. Whatever angle they want to set it at will work, you will be adjusting it to what you want anyways. Besides, like Jack said they do settle a bit.

The trailing arms can even be set in a upwards angle for going waaay low. Or they can be set at a 45 degree angle for big ground clearance like we do on the off road option.

I agree, set the ride height at 12-13 inches to the bottom of the frame rails for most street applications. This is what we do.

There are three standard mounting brackets available for the Flexirides. A low profile, a standard and a high rise bracket. We found noone carries any of them other than the standard,

I like your mounting tab idea on the inside of the frame rail. Box tube frame I assume? I would probably weld in a peice of angle iron to the inside for mounting points, pretty easy actually.

I see, on the 60" bed. What kind of body trim are you using? If you go with a standard RV trim it is 1 1/8" wide. You could leave a 1/2" off each side of the skin and the trim will cover it with enough room to seal and staple it down too. With a 4 x 10 sheet cut in half and turned sideways you would be able to get 61" outside dimension. With our 3/4" walls we use the 60" outside and end up with a 58 1/2" inside dimension.

The split sunroof would work great for the center seam if you go that route. If you don't are worried about the sunroof over the seam let me know. It is rather involved but we do this ourselves and I can try to explain it.

Cary

[Guest]

Hey Cary,
If I can't get the copper wide enough, (So far all I've found is 3' wide) I will opt for the his and her sunroof deal because these are real low profile applications and I don't like the idea of a seam dying right in the middle of the sunroof which is almost flush mount.
I'm going to be laminating the profile trim and center seam cap (If needed) out of hardwood strips to go with my woody sides. These will be fun...
I'm glad you think that will work out alright, having the axle mounts tucked up inside of the frame rails.
I just did a quick drawing to post here, because I didn't know if that axle tube needed to have space to flex if indeed, or if it would be OK to butt it up against the two side rails of the frame.



Almost forgot... Thanks guys for edjumacating me on the need for radial tires.

[Cary Winch]

Dean,

Ohhh, those wooden strips will look really really nice against the copper.

The axle tube should be able to butt right up against the frame. It really is just a piece of 2 1/2" tubing with the cartridges stuffed into them. Just remember to not weld to the tube, as tempting as it will be. Attach only to the brackets. We actually notch into our frame to get the tube as far up as possible.

The flaw I see with your drawing is the location of the end of the tube. It will end up under the trailer frame. The trailing arms have an offset to them on these axles. This is what I was trying to say earlier about the 1/4" outer wall only hanging over the frame. You will probably have to be widen out the hub to hub dimension an inch unless you notch your frame to clear the trailing arm. One way to do this maybe would be to narrow your frame a bit. Then glue in a 1/2" spacer between your overhanging 1/4" piece and the frame. This will give you a 3/4" wall below the floor and then I know that the end of the axle being flush with the edge of the frame would work perfect. It would be basically the same as ours in that aspect.

Cary

It's all just brain salad surgery.

[Guest]

Yaa,
That drawing was just to show the difference between floating the sqaure axle tube on the mounting brackets and tucking it tight up against the frame rails.
I do know that my backspacing on the 14" x 6" wheels is 3 3/4", but I don't know how far the tire is going to hang out past the edge of the wheel.
I checked a glass fabrication table that I built out of 2" square tubing and I could even decrease the clearence between the frame rail and subwall to 1/8", but based on that 6.185" from the face of the hub to the end of the axle tube, it looks like the axle tube is going to be inside of the skirted wall, something like this perhaps...


...And this was guestimating that the radial tire being more flexible than the bias ply tire sat 1" past the edge of the wheel.

[Cary Winch]

Dean,

On a flexiride your cinch bolt might hit the frame doing it that way. The trailing arm is right up to the end of the tube and the bolt heat would be above the mounting bracket a bit. The trailing arm on a flexiride is different in that it has a offset in it. This keeps it strong.

You will have to find a way to make the axle tube end flush with the side of the frame, or close to flush.

Cary

[Guest]

I'm going to put these "By Guess & By Golly" drawings away for a minute and do some math... (It's kinda hard to draw it right without having the part or a good picture to work with)

Overall body width: 63 1/2". (Will probably increase by 1/8" with epoxy glass and uv inhibitor)
1" tire clearence between body... add 2" = 65 1/2".
Tire Salesman tells me that the tire will hang over the edge of the wheel by 1/2"... add 1" = 66 1/2".
The backspace of the 14" x 6" wheel is 3 3/4"... add 7 1/2" = 74".

OK... 74" should be my hub face to hub face dimension.
Now I subtract that minimum hub face to mounting bracket dimension of 6.185" twice... 74" - 12.370" = 61.630". (Just a tad over 61 5/8")

OK...That tells me that the square axle tube is going to be 61 5/8" long.
It also tells me that the frame is a bit too wide also...

Frame Rail width: 62".
Interior dimension of subwall to subwall skirt: 62 1/2".
Clearence between frame rail and subwall skirt 1/4".

Easy solution... Go with more tire to cabin wall clearence and increase Axle tube length to at least 62" (Maybe go 62 1/4" just for extra swing arm clearence)

Other option... Narrow up frame width and use more clearence around skirt area. (I dont like this option because I'm loosing shear support for wall framing)

Creative solution... Narrow frame width just at axle/ swing arm location.
(I would probably notch-n-box, then utilize longer gusseted axle mount on back side of boxed in notch for added strength)

Gonna think this one over... That notch-n-box does sound like a sanitary solution.

My wheels and tires should be here by this Saturday, so I'll be able to order the axle first thing next week.

BTW- I got a price to get the baby moons copper plated... $150.00

Thanks for your continued help Cary...

[Cary Winch]

Dean,

I do believe you have it. I like the notch and box. That would be pretty slick.

Remember too to take Jack's advice and settle that axle in before mounting fenders or anything. We drag our frames down the road abour 25 miles before putting the body in. That settles them in enough to be able to readjust the ride height right on the money.

Cary

[Guest]

Well Golly Gee Willikers...
You guys told me to get my wheels and tires first, before trying to figure out all that "stuff".
It looks like my tires made life pretty easy for me.
(Cary...Please check my figures if you stumble across this... It's been a long couple of work days)

OK... The back space from where the hubface mounts to my wheel, to the side of the tire is 4 5/8".
My body will be 63 5/8" OA in width. (I threw in an extra 1/8" for epoxy fiberglass and uv protection.
I want 1" clearence from the edge of the tire to the sidewall of the cabin.
65 5/8" + 9 1/4" = 74 7/8" (Hub Face to Hub Face)

74 7/8 - 12 3/8 = 62 1/2" (length of axle tube)
BTW 12 3/8" is that minimum 6.185 hubface to bracket demension twice. (I'm not going to sweat that .005" over 62 1/2")

My frame is going to be 62" OA width, so it looks like the axle tube will indeed extend past the frame rails by 1/4" on each side.
Now the only thing left to do as far as the axle goes is to find out how wide and how tall those mounting brackets are on the Flexiride.
I'll need to know this so I can specify where I want the mounting brackets to be placed on the axle tube by the supplier and so that I know what height to put the angle iron gusseted supports for the mounting brackets.

Thanks Again... for putting up with me.

[Nitetimes]

Sounds like you got it all sorted out! It's definitely much easier on the 'ole thinker once you have the tires mounted.

[Guest]

What really helped out, which wasn't planned is...I ordered 14" wheels and tires but for some reason the salesman wrote up the order with 15" wheels and tires. I didn't catch that on the print out he gave me prior to ordering.
These 15" wheels have a 4" back space and the tire overhangs the rim by 5/8".
I had chose the 14" wheels because it looked like they would come closer to being able to have the "prefered" starting angle on the swing arm for the ground clearence that I wanted.
What seems odd to me though is... The 15" tires aren't any taller than what I was told for the 14" tires... No harm, no foul.

[purplepickup]

It's good to hear you're moving forward Dean.

I just got some 15" alloy rims and tires too. Now I'm laying out the fender and wall location since my wheels will be half under and half outside my walls. I'm modifying some 39 Chevy fenders and using my wall template for a wall right now. It feels good to finally start moving on something again. The foot surgery went well and I'm almost back up on two feet. Thank goodness for shop chairs with casters.