No CAD ability; someone help?

[Laredo]

What would it look like with the drawing software to set the Modernistic profile at a 20-degree nose-high angle on the axle, with a steamer-trunk shaped tongue box (that has a false lid covering a solar panel for charging batteries) under the very front?

I have a picture in my head of a 5' wide x 9' long x 52'' high cabin (this would have a 9'' dropped floor running between the wheel wells from end to end to accomodate dinette use; and when the dinette is down it locks into interior wall rails to serve as the deck for a 2nd bunk) and there would be a 6'' wide x 3'' high raised 'railed' skylight -- a detail very similar to the top of the big Jim Dandy design on the one-page leaflet illustration -- centered along the hatch lid, which would only be half as long as usual so that you could have the swing-apart lower half with cabinets built into the doors) and would have fold-down props to brace it open, sitting on a salvage-yard axle assembly (with wheels that include brakes and a matching spare) to allow for integral exterior fenders (wide, deep, fin-shaped fenders pattened after those on the Glen-L.com site boat, L Dorado) that conceal an extra foot of interior width, and the street side one has the 'scoop' at the upper corner that helps hold the spare in place like a '50s pickup) that 'flare' from flush against the bottom of the entry/exit hatches (yes, hatches on both sides; hatches that are oval shaped and interior hinged and swing up gullwing like a DeLorean, but are set at an angle about 15 degrees off straight-up-and-down of their long axes leaning the opposite way from the front edge of the cabin, and each hatch has 'porthole' windows) out to the full 6'' at the fin-ends which are actually flush with the back edge of the closed galley doors. The front wall features aircraft-style triangular windows (all the windows would be Lexan panes in weatherstripped openings with aluminum flashing). In the fins of the fenders would be the stop/turn lights. In the tongue box would be the two batteries. The freshwater reservoirs would be lengths of 4''OD PVC water supply line mounted above the galley countertop in tight S curves to allow gravity-feeding at the laundry-faucet fitting on the deep wet-bar style sink. The stove would be a Harbor Freight gas model with grill and broiler. There would be a coffeepot and a mini microwave on one GFCI outlet in the galley, another GFCI outlet in the cabin, and a rollout slide under the sink for a big cooler. One of the hatches would have an integrated rim for a privacy curtain. Inside the galley would have a large pass through in case of horrible weather (the coffeepot and electric microwave are for such times!) and an overhead fold-down DVD/TV with an FM/WB/CD stereo, and aircraft-style reading lights for the queen size bed and the bunk bed (s) plus a galley light. I would put computer-case ventilation fans in the galley wall and the ceiling vent (and maybe solar power the ceiling vent), and add a bedwarmer. I think I would frame everything with 2''x2'' salvaged from shipping pallets, and use 1/4'' fir ply for the interior skins with clear polyurethane, then a pink foam board insulation layer, another 1/4'' ply wall and, I think, a .040'' metal exterior.

can it be drawn? should it be built?

[mikeschn]

I actually tried something like that last week. A 5x9 cub with a dinette. It really wasn't working out well, because I didn't have enough headroom... Look at this picture...



The person on the left is a short person. The person on the right is an average sized person. He runs out of headroom. And you can't get a tall person in there at all.

This is a 52" high cub. You almost have to make it 60" tall to get the required headroom. Then the teardrop is just too big.

More thoughts anyone?

Mike...

[Shrug53]

This brings us back to our discussion fo pop-up tears. There is just no way to get a normal sized person in to a 4 foot tall tear and have them be able to sit up.
To sit comfortably your butt has to be at least 18" higher than the bottom of your feet. Go measure a chair, they all sit at right around 18"
The only other way to do this is to have a dropped floor of 12" to givve you the required leg and headroom.
You will still also want at least six inches of ground clearance which mean that the bottom of the trailer would sit 18" off the ground.
I know there is one trailer out there which has a canvas floor that pulls in to the trailer.
Another way of doing that would be to use the sliding room concept but on the floor. You could have your 12" and retract it in tp the trailer when driving and then unlatch it and lower it when camped. You would still need 12" of clearance, but that would be ok.

My personal preference is to just make the trailer 5' high and scale the whole thing up somewhat.

[Chip]

just a thought or observation,,,I dont care how hard ya try you cant put 10 lbs of taters in a 5 lb sack,,,somewhere ya got to make allowances,,,if ya want a stand up shower, king size bed or other large size comforts,,a tear is not the way someone should go,,bite the bullet and build or restore a small/ larger trailer. I dont plan on being inside any more than I have to and then that is just to sleep ,,I am not trying to sound smart-a*%&#, but you can only put so much in a 4to 5 x4 to 5 by 8 to 10 foot box,,simplicity of a teardrop and its use is part of the glamor of these tiny trailers,,just thinking out loud and not meaning to get on soap box

chip

[mikeschn]

I have to agree, you can only put so much into a teardrop.

Part of the beauty of living in CA is all the good weather. Here in Michigan, if you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes. It'll change. Part of that change includes, cold, wet, and raining.

So what do you do with a teardrop if it's cold, wet or raining? Well, if you have an easy up, you stay under that. If you have a bed, you could climb in and lay down, but how often and how long do you want to be laying down? The option, as I see it, is to be able to sit in the teardrop.

When I built my 6x10 Benroy 5'high, that's exactly what I did. I gave us a place to sit to get in out of the rain. Does that mean we sit around inside, eat our meals inside etc when it's beautiful outside? Not a chance. It just a place to hide, since we didn't want to set up an easy-up.

With a 4' high Cub/Modernistic profile, you probably want an easy-up. Otherwise, when it rains, you just pack up and go home.

Mike...

[Shrug53]

I would like to go over the points of this trailer one by one (basically because I have nothing else to do)

I have a picture in my head of a 5' wide x 9' long x 52'' high cabin (this would have a 9'' dropped floor running between the wheel wells from end to end to accommodate dinette use; and when the dinette is down it locks into interior wall rails to serve as the deck for a 2nd bunk)

The modernistic is the least useful of the shapes for sitting up in. If it were me I would go with a Benroy, Cabin Cruiser, or Ken-Skill.
The 9” dropped floor is fine. Just remember for safety you still want at least six inches of ground clearance (like your average car). However in order to have the dropped floor running between the wheel wells you need to mount the axle below it which will make the bottom of the trailer ride considerably higher.

Also having the table there would restrict you to sitting on one side only (see my “belvedere” design). If you are going to go for a table you should really position it where the people will get the maximum headroom.

There would be a 6'' wide x 3'' high raised 'railed' skylight -- a detail very similar to the top of the big Jim Dandy design on the one-page leaflet illustration -- centered along the hatch lid, which would only be half as long as usual so that you could have the swing-apart lower half with cabinets built into the doors) and would have fold-down props to brace it open

First, I am going to assume you mean the Jim Dandy Caravan and not the Cabin Trailer. You have lost me on that one. What is the purpose of having this sort of the on the hatch? I could see it on the trailer itself as it would give you some extra headroom. But what would be its function here?

The half hatch is a great idea, it is like the series of photos on Nick’s page.

sitting on a salvage-yard axle assembly (with wheels that include brakes and a matching spare) to allow for integral exterior fenders (wide, deep, fin-shaped fenders patterned after those on the Glen-L.com site boat, L Dorado) that conceal an extra foot of interior width

You have really lost me here. Above you mention wheel wells now you are talking about full sized fenders. If your wheels are inside wheel wells why do you need fenders? How would they conceal any width at all? Please clarify what you mean here.

And the street side one has the 'scoop' at the upper corner that helps hold the spare in place like a '50s pickup) that 'flare' from flush against the bottom of the entry/exit hatches

That is fine except for a few things. The weight would not only be higher overall, but it would also be hanging off one side of the trailer would which need to be balanced out
Also the front of that spare would stick out about 18” from the front of the fender meaning the door would have to be moved forward to allow entry, if the doors are in front of the fenders. The way you describe this makes it sound like the doors sit behind the fenders.

(yes, hatches on both sides; hatches that are oval shaped and interior hinged and swing up gullwing like a DeLorean, but are set at an angle about 15 degrees off straight-up-and-down of their long axes leaning the opposite way from the front edge of the cabin, and each hatch has 'porthole' windows) out to the full 6'' at the fin-ends which are actually flush with the back edge of the closed galley doors.

This may look good but you are talking about a lot of extra weight here. The hinges would need to be considerably stronger to support the weight of the doors at that angle, and you would need some sort of support/lifting assistance like gas shocks. It also sounds a lot like the doors will open in to part of the galley. To what end? So you can access the galley from the sides? I think what you really need to do here is to at least make a side-view pencil sketch so we can properly see the positioning of everything. Some of this is just not making sense.

The front wall features aircraft-style triangular windows (all the windows would be Lexan panes in weather-stripped openings with aluminum flashing).

I have to say I have never seen triangular windows, aircraft or otherwise. I think the B-2 (stealth) has a couple of windows that are almost triangular on the leading edge of the cockpit.

In the fins of the fenders would be the stop/turn lights.

Sounds good.

In the tongue box would be the two batteries.

Sounds bad. On the small end you are still looking at about a 26lb weight per battery (can get up to 40lbs each) That is a lot of extra weight sitting on your tongue. Anything that is heavy (batteries, A/C, water tanks, etc.) you want to get as close to the axle as possible.

The freshwater reservoirs would be lengths of 4''OD PVC water supply line mounted above the galley countertop in tight S curves to allow gravity-feeding at the laundry-faucet fitting on the deep wet-bar style sink.

Very clever. Eliminates the need for any sort of pump. What about your waste tank? Where would your supply tank be fed from?

The stove would be a Harbor Freight gas model with grill and broiler. There would be a coffeepot and a mini microwave on one GFCI outlet in the galley, another GFCI outlet in the cabin, and a rollout slide under the sink for a big cooler. One of the hatches would have an integrated rim for a privacy curtain. Inside the galley would have a large pass through in case of horrible weather (the coffeepot and electric microwave are for such times!) and an overhead fold-down DVD/TV with an FM/WB/CD stereo, and aircraft-style reading lights for the queen size bed and the bunk bed (s) plus a galley light. I would put computer-case ventilation fans in the galley wall and the ceiling vent (and maybe solar power the ceiling vent), and add a bed warmer. I think I would frame everything with 2''x2'' salvaged from shipping pallets, and use 1/4'' fir ply for the interior skins with clear polyurethane, then a pink foam board insulation layer, another 1/4'' ply wall and, I think, a .040'' metal exterior.

The rest sounds pretty good. I have gone for a pass-through in my “belvedere’ design. I would think carefully about the wood from the pallets. That is generally in pretty bad shape and very low quality lumber. Also because I am guessing you are already going to be up around 1500 lbs. or so, I would stay away from the metal skin.

I hope this has given you some things to think about. You have mixed some great design elements together; you just need to think about the execution a little more. Try drawing it out in pencil. It does not need to be fancy; it will just give you a better picture of how everything fits together. I don’t do CAD at all, but I think I still get my ideas across. I just do pencil sketches and then do a nicer version in Photoshop.

Looking forward to seeing your changes/sketches.

[Shrug53]

Boy I am a long winded fellow! Comes from being unemployed. Well at least I will have part time work starting next Monday. Going to be doing customer service from home for Office Depot. At least I get ot work nekkid!

[Chip]

didnt mean to get on soapbox,,my appoligies,,it just seams the limits of a tear have been stretched however thats what makes them unique,,a new idea and something different,,I'll hush and go sit in my corner for a while,,


chipper

[Shrug53]

I meant to get on my soapbox! heck I carry one around with me in case I should ever feel the need to share my opinion at the mall, grocery store, etc. In fact I am seriously considering hiring a choir and lighting guy to follow me around so that when I speak every word can be accompanied by angelice light and music!

[Laredo]

Well, I have my answer. It shouldn't happen. Thanks.

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[R Keller]

Shrug53 and Chip:

Soapbox or not, I have to disagree that a comfortable seating area is impossible in a 4-foot tall trailer! Unless you are talking about the actual height of the trailer being 4 feet, and not just the main body dimension, in which case I'll join you on that soapbox, if there's still room.

Around 18" is a standard height for a chair, but many couches are way less than that and perfectly comfortable. In my Road Toad, I have a dropped floor depth of 7". A 5" cushion above the floor gives a leg-drop of 12" before accounting for cushion sag. Having used this, I can report that it is very comfortable. You could probably go with a 10" total drop and still be OK.

I was pleasantly suprised to find that I could also double up the 5" cushions for a seating height of 17" and still have a little bit of headroom (even on the shorter curved side in front). And I'm 6'2" with a relatively long torso for my height, though I have been known to slouch on occasion.

My maximum inside cabin height is about 46 1/4" (48" side walls set on the floor minus the ceiling thickness. The top of floor height from the ground right now is about 15". That gives me about 7" ground clearance (15" minus 7" interior footwell depth minus another 1" for bottom of footwell. And a outside trailer height of about 63" (15" plus 48").

Of course, I have a flat roof (though curved in front) to allow for maximum headroom while seated....

Rik

[mikeschn]

Hey Rik,

I am seeing something similar to that also. I laid this out yesterday, and while it still needs some tweaking, it's definitely do-able.


With the 9" dropped floor and the 4" cushion it's comfortable. We tested it on the mockup in the garage!

Mike...

[Laredo]

Shrug53,
that wooden trailer you have posted pictures of is nice. Do you know what the dimensions of it are?

Thanks

There is a drawing of the fenders at http://www.glen-l.com --

click on the "Boat Design Catalog," then "Outboard Designs" and then scroll down to "L-Dorado" .

That's a 13-foot boat. I would only need about the back 5 feet, which would
surround the bottom of the hatch and cabin. The boat fenders appear to be about 8'' wide on top and are flattened surfaces, which would come in handy for cooking, eating, etc. outside (not to mention offering great locations for storage doors). If you go to www.southwest.com and look at the airplane drawing on their logos you will see the rounded-triangle windshields. I still like the idea of the modernistic profile. I was not good at describing how I meant to dimension the drop floor -- it is in the cabin forward of the axle. I think I left out that I intended to get one of those rollaway graywater reservoirs. I think I might change the outside dimensions so that at the top of the curve the cabin is 60'' high, and I would probably make it 62'' wide externally. I still like the idea of the oval entry door, and I think I would still put in the Q-size bed, but I'd probably give up on the dinette idea. I would raise the bed off the floor and set it across the trailer with the head of the bed next to the galley. This would give me some space at the front of the trailer where maybe I could build in a porta-potty cabinet. So it's a 5'Hx6'Wx9'L design. I could ditch the salvaged wood idea, but I still might get a salvage yard axle with rims and spare, and I think I might want to get one of those metal motorcycle pallets as a frame/platform.

Does that help?[/img]