Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets???

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Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets???

Postby jonnyo » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:19 pm

I have build my little trailer 2 years ago and me and my wife used it a lot. It s awesome all aluminum enclosed trailer that i modified. Weight about 750lbs fully build and so easy to pull. The subaru forester gets good mpg with it!!!

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Now, we do have one baby coming in the next 2 months...and the family will only get bigger. We just got a dog!

Time to build a new trailer. I want to make a very lightweight 6X12 by 60inch inside height teardrop/cargo trailer with bunk bed and one queen size bed so the full family and dog can still go camping.

i want it light..and i would love to make the structure. Any specalist of aluminum can tell me if it s possible to build a strong structure in aluminum using Rivets to join the aluminum square tubes? a structure like this (but smaller)

Image

i dont know how to weld .....so would rivet do the job? that would be one fun puzzle to build!!
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby George Taylor » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:30 pm

thinking about doing something similar. look up information on the rivets they use on airstream trailers. They have been making them with rivets for years. you can get the rivets and tools from an aircraft parts supplier.
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby RandyG » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:35 pm

My frame is made of riveted aluminium, check it out on my build. I was thinking of making a 'How to rivet guide' for the forum.
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby atahoekid » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:07 pm

I don't know how set your mind is on aluminum, but I would recommend you consider building a foamie. There's a forum right here on this board. I know that it says "thrifty alternatives", but another and bigger plus in my mind is the ease of the build and it's very light weight. There are quite a few of us who have built our foamies and we all seem to be quite happy with them. Lots of alternatives once you get building and lots of folks there willing to share their wisdom and know how.
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The Road Foamie Build Thread: viewtopic.php?t=45698
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby alaska teardrop » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:31 pm

    Jonnyo, Yes, you can build a stout lightweight trailer using riveted aluminum construction. It takes paying close attention to the materials used, making use of almost every tube for two or three purposes, placement of each rivet & using the skin as a structural element in your design.
    Here is a link to my Northern Lite Traveler design & construction: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=51991 Hope it gives you some ideas for your build. Any questions - ask away.
    Image
    Image
    :peace: Fred
Northern Lite Traveler design: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=51991
Minimalist torsion axle frame: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=12220
Alaska Teardrop photo gallery: http://tnttt.com/gallery/album.php?album_id=2014
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby Vedette » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:51 pm

Aluminum structure is IMHO the way to go for teardrop trailers.
Rivets are cool to look at and are definitely the way to skin your trailer.
But for the frame and the skeleton, wouldn't it just be easier to learn to weld or find someone that can and has the equipment to come and help? :thinking:
Just my two cents worth.
Good Roads
Brian & Sandi
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Here is a link to my Build Journal
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=50912
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby rowerwet » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:16 pm

find a copy of AC 43-13 a and b (plenty of out of date ones floating around) it is the FAA guide to repairing aircraft, there is a section in it that will show you how to rivet. I do it for a living and thought of it for a TD, however if you don't have experience at it, you will end up with plenty of dents caused by shooting the rivets badly until you learn. It is a skill not everyone can master, even guys who went to trade school to pass the FAA test which includes riveting.

I would also recomend What GPW said, Foam is much cheaper, lighter, and easier. Riveting is time intensive, great for an airplane, buss or tractor trailer with serious daily use. Serious overkill for a TD that may see monthly use at best.
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby jonnyo » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:10 pm

alaska teardrop wrote:
    Jonnyo, Yes, you can build a stout lightweight trailer using riveted aluminum construction. It takes paying close attention to the materials used, making use of almost every tube for two or three purposes, placement of each rivet & using the skin as a structural element in your design.
    Here is a link to my Northern Lite Traveler design & construction: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=51991 Hope it gives you some ideas for your build. Any questions - ask away.
    Image
    Image
    :peace: Fred



That is exactly what i was looking for!!!!!!!!!! your first sentence in your build thread ''The plan envisioned a light weight chassis, riveted aluminum cabin construction, strength, durability, low maintenance & a reasonable aerodynamic profile to be pulled with a small car. ''

that is my goa, a 6X12 trailer at around 1000-1200lbs with a resonable aerodynamic shape and low enough that mpg is still good...and easy to store at home, easy to move by hands...

my first question as i have never purchase aluminum square tubes or sheet etc... how much did you spend in aluminum to build this teardrop? i m really not sure of the price of square tubing and starting to investigate where i can find some locally. But thank you for posting, i think i will have a lot of questions ahead...your project is so much of the same technic i was hoping to use!!!

for those recommending the foamie. it s definitly not the look i m going for or the challenge i m looking for. There is something about aluminum that really interest me. While i m not sure i will take on welding yet....riveting is something i done in the bike industrie and i can deal with that!!!!

thank you everyone
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby RandyG » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:19 pm

Vedette wrote:Aluminum structure is IMHO the way to go for teardrop trailers.
Rivets are cool to look at and are definitely the way to skin your trailer.
But for the frame and the skeleton, wouldn't it just be easier to learn to weld or find someone that can and has the equipment to come and help? :thinking:
Just my two cents worth.
Good Roads
Brian & Sandi

Welding causes the metal to become more prone to cracking. If you do decide to try it do your research. Everything matters when riveting, edge distance, how many rows, the type of metal, radias of the bends, and so on and so on...
But dont be discouraged, the info can be just a click away.
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby Treeview » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:49 am

I have no experience with this but I've read comments here and other related forums about using adhesive tape to glue aluminum instead of rivets. 3M is one manufacturer of the tape...no surprise there!

Would you use solid rivets or pop rivets?

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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby jonnyo » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:16 am

to build the frame with 1X1 square aluminum tubes, i would use pop rivets to get everything together.

for the final part of skinning the walls, i would used the tape. With a few windows, door, tims etc...the skin would stay in place with no issue i would think.
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby mary and bob » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:35 pm

Our old Moderistic teardrop is an all aluminum body on a steel chassis. Riveted together with aircraft type rivets, also used on truck cargo bodies. We had to do a lot of riveting during the restoration. Bought a dolly and various rivet tools on ebay. bought rivets at McMaster Carr. I had done this type of riveting repairing truck & trailer boxes so had no problem doing it on the teardrop.
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby alaska teardrop » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:36 am

    Jonnyo, I apologize for the lack of good pictures (camera issues) during this part of the process.
    To quote from the build thread:
    The cabin is constructed using: .063" (1/16") 3003-H14 sheet aluminum. 16 gage (1/16") x 1" 6063-T52 square tubing. 1/8" x 1" angle cleats. 3M 4919F VHB tape. 3/16" *closed end* aluminum structural rivets (575# shear - 840# tensile).
    The walls are made on the work table, outer film protected surface down. The side plan is layed out on the inner face of the sheet. The curve of the roof, window & door openings are cut. The rivet holes are punched or drilled. The hoop is cold formed by hand over a wooden buck. The tube framing is cut & secured in place with tape. The cleats are installed. The assembly is turned outside up. The tubing is drilled through the premade holes in the outer sheet & riveted with a pneumatic riveter.
    The walls are installed to the steel floor frame with tape & rivets along the bottom. The ten vertical wall frame members are cleated to the top of the floor frame.
    These show the side, scribed, cut, holes drilled or punched and the insulation being sized before the side is attached to the floor with tape & rivets.
    Image
    Image
    Image
    3M sells hundreds of tapes for different purposes. 3M-VHB4919F is made for metal such as used on truck/trailer bodies with skeletal frames such as in your first post. I buy the tape from a local industrial adhesives supplier. 3/4"x72 yards - $97.
    The walls & roof of the Northern Lite are what I call stressed skin construction. Because the aluminum skin is an integral component of the strength, I used both tape & rivets. In places not under stress, such as the tailgate or around the windows of Stacie's trailer, I used the tape only.
    Image
    Image
    Although the closed-end structural rivets use the same tools, they are not pop-rivets. Much stronger, don't leak and the mandrel always breaks off out of sight inside the rivet. Because these rivets are difficult to pull with a hand riveter, I recommend a pneumatic rivet tool. The drill size, grip range and keeping the pieces tight together before pulling the trigger are critical.
    I purchase steel & aluminum from a local industrial steel sales company. Most any manufacturing town will have one that also sells aluminum. The type of aluminum in stock may depend on the type of industry nearby. Not exactly sure of where you live, but I think that these two are represented near you:
    Recent prices: 1"x1"x16ga. 6063-T52 = $1. /foot. 4x10x.063" 3003-H14 = $100. 4x10x.050" 3003-H14 = $80. 5x10x.040" 3003-H14 = $82.
    :peace: Fred
Northern Lite Traveler design: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=51991
Minimalist torsion axle frame: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=12220
Alaska Teardrop photo gallery: http://tnttt.com/gallery/album.php?album_id=2014
Glampette photo gallery; gallery/album.php?album_id=2983&sk=t&sd=d&st=0
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby alaska teardrop » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:56 am

    George wrote: thinking about doing something similar. look up information on the rivets they use on airstream trailers. They have been making them with rivets for years. you can get the rivets and tools from an aircraft parts supplier.
mary and bob wrote:Our old Moderistic teardrop is an all aluminum body on a steel chassis. Riveted together with aircraft type rivets, also used on truck cargo bodies. We had to do a lot of riveting during the restoration. Bought a dolly and various rivet tools on ebay. bought rivets at McMaster Carr. I had done this type of riveting repairing truck & trailer boxes so had no problem doing it on the teardrop.

George & Bob, I guess those old trailers speak well for this method of construction. :thumbsup:
Northern Lite Traveler design: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=51991
Minimalist torsion axle frame: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=12220
Alaska Teardrop photo gallery: http://tnttt.com/gallery/album.php?album_id=2014
Glampette photo gallery; gallery/album.php?album_id=2983&sk=t&sd=d&st=0
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Re: Building teardrop structure out of aluminum with Rivets?

Postby grantstew8 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:31 pm

Take a look at some of the aircraft building forms. Vans airforce, zenith and there are a few others. They talk about tools, techniques and gotchas. Our tolerances are lower as we can pull off the road and fix. At 5000ft it's a different story. :)
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