The RV Death Spiral

[Lesbest]

I've been in the auto equipment business for 12 years now (still wet behind the ears). ALL of your name brands Coats, Corghi, Hunter, etc still build a quality machine, BUT to compete in the "Race to the Bottom", they have ALL come out with a reduced cost machine. Chinese built, either partially or totally, looks like a tire changer and acts like a tire changer IF your tire isn't any tougher than your trailer tire. If you are changing a low profile tire good luck.

The Race to the Bottom is nothing new and has been happening for a while now and in all segments of industry. Hershey's makes chocolate in Mexico now, Oreo's are Mexican made also. If I won't pay the price for quality I won't get quality. If someone builds crap, and I refuse to buy it, and it rots on the sales floor the consumer can win, but The Race is way ahead of us and I don't know if we can change it.

When you buy a Chinese tire changer and it doesn't matter whose name is on it, when it breaks you throw it in the dumpster. 6 months after the sale, you got screwed. 2 years after the sale not bad. 3 or more years after the sale-you hit a home run. You buy a cheap machine, you get a cheap machine. Parts are often unobtanium, and not necessarily standardized. It's a real mess. I'm sure this is not exclusive to this industry.

I've serviced tire changers at a local Camping world and you could build a teardrop from what's thrown in the dumpster every night, it's a scroungers paradise if it wasn't faulty.

Les

[jonesnforcampin]

It really is crazy. My Dad has a used toy hauler and the sides are sagging due to them not building the floor supports strong enough. They sag where it overlaps the frame. He took it somewhere when he noticed it and they acted like it was a known issue aND had no suggestions on how to fix it. He loves his toy haulers but they just seem so flimsy.

[Tomterrific]

It sounds as if the only way to get a good RV is to buy a junker cheap, tear it down and rebuild it using good wood and waterproofing technique. All the expensive parts are still useful.

Tom

[GPW]

QUOTE: “ if the only way to get a good RV is to buy a junker cheap ... “
You don’t even want that , usually nothing is salvageable anymore ( Junk in , junk out )... everything made out of the cheapest materials possible ... You don’t even want the cushions ...

[GPW]

I guess the real question is , why doesn’t some one intentionally build a trailer/RV with Good materials , wisely used ??? ... We all know it’s possible ... Is it that they are just so free Ken GREEDY ??? They say it would drive the cost up ... True ( a little bit) , but without all the expensive maintenance and short life , it would be lots cheaper in the long haul .... For Us !!!

[dmdc411]

I totally agree with the fact RV industry is bound to fail. They always have built lousy equipment, people keep buying. Cost of fuel and tow vehicles are also a contributing factor. My parents have a2004 (?) Ford chassis class A. Can't get hoses for the cooling system. Now what? Make my own using fab'd stainless pipe and straight hose. What's next?

[jstrubberg]

I guess the real question is , why doesn’t some one intentionally build a trailer/RV with Good materials , wisely used ??? ... We all know it’s possible ... Is it that they are just so free Ken GREEDY ??? They say it would drive the cost up ... True ( a little bit) , but without all the expensive maintenance and short life , it would be lots cheaper in the long haul .... For Us !!!

They aren't concerned with what it costs you to own one. All they are concerned with is are you buying.

[PontiacPureBred]

Here's what sucks for the general public.

MOST people don't have the know how or the gumption to build an RV. This is the crux. The RV industry targets this group ...

Then you have a smallish group of people (I fall somewhere in here) that have the know how, have the gumption, have a lot of what they would need to build an RV but don't have EVERYTHING they need to build an RV. be it specialized tools, space, available time, etc. Sadly the RV industry get's their claws in this group a lot too, cause darn it we want to sleep on a nice bed and not worry about rain so much and have A/C on a hot hot day, or a furnace on a cold cold night.

So we look to the RV industry to give us an effective option that fits our family and our budget.

I don't have a huge workshop to build in, I live in the Midwest where temperatures vary greatly from just right to dangerously hot to freezing cold. We will have weeks sometimes without rain and then it will not stop for days on end. So if you don't have a place to build you can't build. I also lack some of the more specialized tools. (Welder, sheet metal brake, some of the saws and router components, etc.)

So I look for options. The "ideal" RV for us (I have recently learned this since my wife and I actually found something we both like) is one of the ultra light options now available, be it the R-pod, Hummingbird, Minnie, etc. Standy, queen bed, potty, kitchen, storage. So I'm looking at going from a teardrop or tiny trailer that I was hoping to have to a 18 foot actual RV. To build one ... well I'd need serious space and some help in the way of man power to raise walls and what not.

Or you see a dealer in town with a nice brand new pod for $13 grand and think, well heck that's not too bad. Till you see how they are built, read some horror stories and realize it's not such a great idea after all.

So you dust off your tent for that next trip and realize your airbed will have to do.

I wish there was a way to have the hand build craftsmanship and not have to hand build and craft it myself. But we all know that's not going to happen. Heck if I knew someone that had a barn for me to build in I'd probably be able to beg borrow or (I wouldn't steal) the rest.

[GPW]

The big quandary is merely a problem of Perception... RVs take the “CAMPING “ out of camping ... a soft bed, air conditioning , a kitchen to fix meals like at home ... and then for the ladies , valances and curtains , matching pillows and decor ...

Seems everyone’s gotten SOFT , forgotten the real joys of camping ... EXISTING OUTSIDE in Nature ......

[lrrowe]

The big quandary is merely a problem of Perception... RVs take the “CAMPING “ out of camping ... a soft bed, air conditioning , a kitchen to fix meals like at home ... and then for the ladies , valances and curtains , matching pillows and decor ...

Seems everyone’s gotten SOFT , forgotten the real joys of camping ... EXISTING OUTSIDE in Nature ......

GPW, I agree with you. As a whole, IMHO, we have gotten too soft and also too sensitive. If ever are to have a chance for things to improve, such as quality in products, we must be "tougher" amd more demanding.

[GPW]

IR, The first time we accidentally spilled water on the cushion of my RV camper , the colors ran ... ...

[PontiacPureBred]

The big quandary is merely a problem of Perception... RVs take the “CAMPING “ out of camping ... a soft bed, air conditioning , a kitchen to fix meals like at home ... and then for the ladies , valances and curtains , matching pillows and decor ...

Seems everyone’s gotten SOFT , forgotten the real joys of camping ... EXISTING OUTSIDE in Nature ......

I agree to a point, but you realize this is a web forum for trailers right?
I am 45, I have a herniated disc in my neck and I have camped (as recently as July) in a tent with an air mattress in the Midwest in 90 degree + temps with only a cooler "air conditioner" to make the tent livable to sleep in. So I know from camping, I know from nature, I have been to the mountains and I have returned a king. (wow maybe over did that a bit)

Anyway, point being, I LOVE nature, I love being out, away from the city lights, the smog, the traffic, the people. But my old bones can only take so much these days. I wanted a teardrop that I could air condition and have a decent memory foam mattress to sleep on. Just overnight sleeping comfort. Otherwise I want to be hiking, fishing or sitting in my nice camp chair listening to nature. My beloved wife wants a bit more in a camper, and I see her point, a potty at 2am is much nicer than going up the hill to the bath house in the dark and fighting spiders and mosquitoes, she also wants a little kitchen for rainy days and mostly breakfast. Easier to cook eggs and bacon on a stove than a campfire. (I know a Coleman camp stove does the same thing, but anyway).

I've thought a lot about it and if you were to get a trailer that had a fiberglass roof and was reasonably solidly built, and took care of it and caulked and checked seals and looked for breaches and patched them, stored it correctly (we have caves they rent out for storage here in KC -Subtropolis- climate controlled, pest free ... etc.) then wouldn't it be as good as anything else? I mean really, water and rodents are the number 1 and 2 reasons RV's fail near as I can tell.

I am torn.

[GPW]

PPB, we totally agree with you .... I’m almost 70 now and unaccustomed to “roughing it” anymore (been there, slept on a rock hundreds of times ) ... And the wife is now even more Spoiled...

I guess if you did all that ^ to your RV , sure it would last better... Some of us can afford that , but RVs are sold to everyday people on the $100.00 a month principle and quickly folks find out they can’t afford the upkeep and maintenance required ( read your warranty) So they park it outside and do what they can , the trailer leaks due to the shoddy materials used ( Designed to fail) then falls apart and they’re out many thousands of dollars that still have to be paid ... Ask me how I know this ... Ask anybody on an independent RV forum , not a factory forum ....they Lie ... Intentionally ... and have many shills

Our recourse was in the Foamie Section , a somewhat lighter, less expensive , Less “Better Homes and Gardens” ( Decor) and more a simple camper with a nice soft bed , lots of pillows and a place to put the stove/microwaye, toaster, big flat screen TV, Coffee maker, potty , etc.etc. ... Tall enough for me to stand up in (6’3”H) ... ~72sq. ft. floor space , Mini Galley and simple GFI electrical system ( No special wiring) ... It’a not a HOUSE, It’s a camper trailer... And we spent 1/15 th of what the commercial RV unit cost , and weighs <25% of the RV weight ... Best of all , with a minimum of maintenance and expense , it lives Outside all year and has already outlasted the Commercial RV unit which failed before the 2 year warranty was up ...

[PontiacPureBred]

PPB, we totally agree with you .... I’m almost 70 now and unaccustomed to “roughing it” anymore (been there, slept on a rock hundreds of times ) ... And the wife is now even more Spoiled...

I guess if you did all that ^ to your RV , sure it would last better... Some of us can afford that , but RVs are sold to everyday people on the $100.00 a month principle and quickly folks find out they can’t afford the upkeep and maintenance required ( read your warranty) So they park it outside and do what they can , the trailer leaks due to the shoddy materials used ( Designed to fail) then falls apart and they’re out many thousands of dollars that still have to be paid ... Ask me how I know this ... Ask anybody on an independent RV forum , not a factory forum ....they Lie ... Intentionally ... and have many shills

Our recourse was in the Foamie Section , a somewhat lighter, less expensive , Less “Better Homes and Gardens” ( Decor) and more a simple camper with a nice soft bed , lots of pillows and a place to put the stove/microwaye, toaster, big flat screen TV, Coffee maker, potty , etc.etc. ... Tall enough for me to stand up in (6’3”H) ... ~72sq. ft. floor space , Mini Galley and simple GFI electrical system ( No special wiring) ... It’a not a HOUSE, It’s a camper trailer... And we spent 1/15 th of what the commercial RV unit cost , and weighs <25% of the RV weight ... Best of all , with a minimum of maintenance and expense , it lives Outside all year and has already outlasted the Commercial RV unit which failed before the 2 year warranty was up ...

I dig it. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to build my own, but as stated above I am handicapped in my current situation. I'm looking at the pod type trailers as listed above, which are "affordable" and are outfitted meagerly compared to the big rigs. I'm looking in the $15,000 range for initial cost and when I break that down, I feel it's ok, since this would allow us to travel the country by car (my preference over flying) and bring our hotel room with us. This year alone (this does not count the camping we have done) we have stayed in a hotel room I think 11 nights. At an average of $120 a night that's over $1300 bucks. I would have camped more and gone more places were it not for the cost of hotels, and the stress of camping on my old bones. So IF I do this, I'd be camping locally probably 6-8 weekends next year plus travel to OK, CO, SD, WY, MT etc to some national parks and locales we enjoy. So even with a $100 a month payment on the trailer and $80 a month to store her when not in use ... I still think I'd come out ahead, not only financially but also emotionally because I'd be out having fun with my wife and my pooch when I'd normally be stuck at home mowing and weeding and painting and whatever else around the house.

My grandfather had a 5th wheel when I was growing up and we'd go to Bull Shoals lake or Pomme De Terre lake for 10 days each summer. He eventually bought a lot near LaCygne KS and we went down maybe 2 or 3 times a year. After about 5 years of sitting on the lot the corner leaked it split open like a melon and was ruined. Now this is a man I learned really everything I know about the "manly" arts and even with him knowing how to fix, build, design and upkeep nearly everything this still occurred due to just not having time to go down regularly and do the maintenance. I have seen the best and worst of RV ownership in my lifetime.

[GPW]

PPB , the very Best of Luck to you !!!! Whichever way you decide !!!