Winter Camping - Helpful Hints?

[Tomterrific]

We use a 200 watt (?) electric blanket when we have electric hook-up. The blanket just lays on top of the bedding and set to 10 before we hit the sack. I have to turn it down to 2 for sleeping, once 3 or 4 when it was really cold. Vents, windows and hatch were open but we stayed warm. Cranked the blanket to 10 first thing on the morning when we woke up. I never thought much about where the heat was but having it low is good. It's the direct heat to the body that makes the E-blanket so efficient. The blanket gets hot enough on high that i didn't even need to be dressed just lieing on top. We also have a 400 watt heater on the ground under the hatch which didn't do as much as I thought.


Tt
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[ae6black]

You are certainly right about the temp differential between floor and ceiling. Most of your cold is going to come from below you. If you compress your mattress enough that you loose your insulation you will get cold no matter how warm it is above you or even the air that you are breathing. I once camped out in Central Ohio in January when it was -18 degrees below zero F. The week before it was 40 degrees. My problem was since I knew it was going to be cold took my bigger ceramic heater that I normally use in my larger camping trailer. It was too much heat. The ceiling actually got more hot than I was comfortable with. I ended up literally turning the ceramic heater off after so many minutes all night long. I of course had a side window open about an inch and my roof vent open about an inch as well for air drainage. You don't want to play games in a TD with air drainage. Waking up dead is not an option because you breathed all of the oxygen out. So when it's really cold you can expect the heater to cycle on and off all night long. If I would have had the el cheapo Walmart ceramic heater that I normally take for Deer Season, I would have been great. The Heater I took couldn't be set to work on 1000 watts and only pumped out 1500. Since I was gone during the day, and was afraid to let this heater set at it's lowest level for fear of burning up my TD, I simply put a halogen Work light in the cabin while I was gone. When I came back at night it was always 90degrees inside. I did this for 4 nights and would do it again. A TD rocks for cold weather camping.

Art

[S. Heisley]

I have camped to 27 F in my 5x8'. On the one end, the roof was in the 'uP' position, which made the ceiling 7' high on the front end. I do NOT open the ceiling vent but I do let in a little air by cracking one of the small windows about 1/4 to 1/2". The temperature inside stays about 10+ degrees above the temperature outside. In the morning, when we awake, the windows are fogged a tad but not to the point of dripping much -if any- and any fog is usually light enough that a person can still see out the windows. That's what works best for us. As you probably know, my galley is inside; so, just heating a kettle of water for coffee is enough to raise the temperature to where it is reasonably comfortable and any window fog dissipates quickly. (I do open the front window above the stove at least a little, when I heat water or cook.)

Opening the ceiling vent can draw the heat out so that the heated air doesn't have a chance to mix and the air being pulled out that ceiling vent makes room for more cold air to be drawn in, causing a draft. Heated air naturally rises while cold naturally sinks.

Please recognize that even in a house, insulation only keeps the temperature difference between outside and inside about 10 degrees. Because of your location (cold), you will most likely need a heater if you camp in the winter. If you are off-grid, I would think that turning on a Heater Buddy when you first arise might be enough. If you can safely cook or make coffee inside, so much the better. I would not use a heater buddy while sleeping. In your location, you may want to invest in one of those 12VDC blankets for those really cold nights. Someone here wrote about using 12VDC mattress pads to warm the bed before retiring and said that was very helpful and welcoming. If you find that all this isn't enough, invest/install a small RV propane heater or electric heater or...? Best Wishes!

[S. Heisley]

PS, If you haven't already done it, get some insulated curtains on those windows! RV windows aren't insulated and you'll loose a lot of heat through them. You can tape packing bubble wrap(small bubbles) to them and that works fairly well, too.

[daveesl77]

While not in the 20s, over our Thanksgiving camp in NE Georgia last month, the night time temps got into the mid-low 30s a couple of nights. Our trailer is 5.5 x 5.5 x 10', 3/4" foam insulation in all areas. We had 120v hook up, so we carry one of those cheap $10 Pelonis heaters you get at Wally World (have used it for several years). It has multiple fan speeds and temp settings. I have a location for it on the front shelf unit, near the top of the trailer. We have to set the thermostat at less than 25% and low fan speed to keep the inside temp comfortable, any higher on the temp and it is just plain hot inside. I have one of the wiley windows (next to me) open at the top about 2" and have one of my 200mm computer exhaust fans built into the forward duct work running, pulling air inside. If I turned on both computer fans it was too much pull from the window air.

With our old pup-up truck camper, it was a similar situation, but with the temp at about 50% and that was in ice storms in New Mexico mountains, temps probably in the low 20s and wind speeds up to 70 mph. Remember, a "pop-up" truck camper has about 18" of canvas wall. We weren't cold, just noisy as all heck.

I still haven't finished building the hot water heater system, but have all the parts. Moral to the story is to keep the air moving around.

For outside time, which is where we spend most of our time, I fabricated walls for the canopy and have a HF propane feed radiant heater, which works well in some pretty low temps, as in New Mexico winter cold.
dave

[lrrowe]

While not in the 20s, over our Thanksgiving camp in NE Georgia last month, the night time temps got into the mid-low 30s a couple of nights. Our trailer is 5.5 x 5.5 x 10', 3/4" foam insulation in all areas. We had 120v hook up, so we carry one of those cheap $10 Pelonis heaters you get at Wally World (have used it for several years). It has multiple fan speeds and temp settings. I have a location for it on the front shelf unit, near the top of the trailer. We have to set the thermostat at less than 25% and low fan speed to keep the inside temp comfortable, any higher on the temp and it is just plain hot inside. I have one of the wiley windows (next to me) open at the top about 2" and have one of my 200mm computer exhaust fans built into the forward duct work running, pulling air inside. If I turned on both computer fans it was too much pull from the window air.

With our old pup-up truck camper, it was a similar situation, but with the temp at about 50% and that was in ice storms in New Mexico mountains, temps probably in the low 20s and wind speeds up to 70 mph. Remember, a "pop-up" truck camper has about 18" of canvas wall. We weren't cold, just noisy as all heck.

I still haven't finished building the hot water heater system, but have all the parts. Moral to the story is to keep the air moving around.

For outside time, which is where we spend most of our time, I fabricated walls for the canopy and have a HF propane feed radiant heater, which works well in some pretty low temps, as in New Mexico winter cold.
dave

Dave, you are going to share your hot water heater project with us, are you not. I always like to see how others approached theirs.

[lfhoward]

Hi Everyone,

I so appreciate everyone's ideas and experiences! Thanks so much for your insights.

My big takeaway is that:
1) I could probably open the windows and ceiling vent a bit less, and
2) I need air circulation to break up the accumulation of heat at the ceiling and get it down where it's needed.

Here's my idea: Use a pair of 6" audio/visual cabinet fans (basically big computer fans) to create air circulation in the trailer when the ceiling fan is not running. That should mix up the heat so that some of it blows down to sleeping level.

A sketch:


On the top is a schematic of how things are now.
Beneath that is a side view and a front view of a little book/glasses/iPhone shelf that I could build up above the front windows. It would have a cabinet fan integrated on each side to blow warm air from the ceiling area down.
On the bottom is a 3D view looking towards the front of the trailer.

The fans I am looking at are only 23 decibels (quiet enough for audio/visual cabinets) and move 52 cubic feet per minute of air. My trailer is 8x6 so that's roughly circulating the entire top two feet of air (out of 4 total) every minute. That seems more than enough. They are also 5V USB and take 0.3 amps, which is a pretty low draw. They also have 3 speeds that can be manually adjusted.

[daveesl77]

Hi Bob, yes on the "Hot Water..." thread I'm the one doing the on-demand system. In my test runs it was phenomenal. I got the hi-low temp controls, digital thermostat, the pump, the solenoids, 200mm computer fans and the aluminum heater core to go along with my Triton 5L. In tests it took like 2 minutes to bring the water temp from 70 to 150 F, as I'm only recirculating non-pressurized water. The solenoids are used to isolate the normal potable system from the heater system. One activates to shift from potable to heater, the other does a "flush" when using potable. Still have to do the programming on the arduino for the flush control, only need enough to clean out the hot water line in the heater. If it is a hassle, then I may forego that part and just remember to run the hot water if I've run the heater system. The thermostat tells the on-demand heater to activate by turning on the pump and starting the water flow. The hi-low temp controls determine when to turn the burner on or off. On if below 110F, off at 150F. Interior temp gets to desired point, thermostat shuts off the water pump and that shuts down the heater. It is a closed system, just not pressurized, using 3 gals of water.

Then I'll mount the components and it should be all done except for the finishing. Didn't feel like doing much with it over the summer, but will start back this winter to finish up (before I completely misplace all the components, again).

dave

[lrrowe]

Sounds complicated. Love to see more about it.
PS It is down below freezing here in VA and I have not flushed my system yet. So I have been running an electric heater all the time to keep the inside temperature above 32 F. Will try and air flush it tomorrow.

[lfhoward]

Wow, Slow! I wouldn't want to be camping in a teardrop in that weather! I am imagining that either you freeze or get buried in a snow drift or a wind gust flips your teardrop over.

[booyah]

So for mine, this is the guy I'm adding for the winter heat.
https://www.amazon.com/Handy-Heater-Plu ... B01L9UKAHM

Has a thermostat, 350 watts it low enough to run off my little generator if needed, and has a fan to help circulate the air.

Price is reasonable and foot print seems made for tnttt

[swoody126]

We had an IKEA mattress, sheets, blankets, and quilts. We were not too cold from the neck down.

though my suggestions do not emanate from sub freezing TD camping it shoud be quite relevant

in my early deer camp experiences, sleeping in the back of a totally un-insulated pick-up, i was told to do 3 things in addition to "the obvious"...

* wear CLEAN(in dirty/soiled fabric the fibers get matted loosing their effectiveness) wool socks for sleeping only

* wear a knit wool hat, the kind that goes down to your neck w/ a small face opening

* INSULATE under the bedding, this is where most of your body heat is stolen. CCF products can be had in many forms from many sources. IKEA bedding isn't designed for the extreems you are targeting so it will most likely need enhancement. insulation needs to be substantially greater on the bottom than the top

for wool items i like merino products like SMARTWOOL which are very skin friendly

being personally prepared for lower temps IMHO would be more important than creating the perfect cocoon, which can fail when the power fails or just isn't available

i am not advocating not pursuing your OP quest, just enhancing it and protecting you & the bridal unit from failure when it happens, because it will if you do much winter camping

GOOD LUCK W/ YOUR QUEST

[hugh]

It,s been a few years since i posted anything here but winter camping is of great interest to me. Before i sold my homemade small camper which was the same size as yours except for height, mine was approx 5'8" inside height i took it out winter camping a few times, never below minus 20 celcius though. Sounds like you,ve got the insulation right although as noted in one of the posts the biggest thing is to provide insulation between your body and the ground or floor. this is from first hand experience camping out of doors many years ago on a frozen lake in a good sleeping bag with no trailer or shelter of any kind. Its highly unlikely your trailer is airtight but it is smart to be concerned about oxygen.. Personally I would not leave the roof vent open, a window a bit open should be good, they sell battery powered carbon monoxide detectors for peace of mind and a small fan to move the warm air around would help a lot. My trailer was built for off road excursions and I did use a propane powered little buddy heater hooked up to a 20 lb tank because my camping was always off grid. The heater has a fan on it as well. Now because of the dangers of carbon monoxide I left my side door open about 2 inches and made sure the trailer was positioned with the door on the downwind side so there was no breeze coming in. A good sleeping bag and a wool touque or something similar to slow heat loss from the head is good. although electric heat and a fan to blow the heat around should alleviate the need for that. I have bought an 18 foot 70,s 2 axle trailer that weve been using in the summer since i sold my homemade and I plan on camping in it well into the the cold weather and here in Winnipeg we get cold weather. I retire this summer for good and have spent a lot of time thinking about heat for my trailer. Everything from a small woodstove to an rv furnace which it has and frankly neither of those is a great option. Wood is pain, with ashes and needed frequent refills, propane does not work well in real cold. And the everpresent danger of not waking up due to CO poisoning. So for me I,m thinking electric might be the way to go. A small generator left in the back of the truck and one or two small electric heaters. Any way try it without the roof vent open and a small fan to blow the heat around and see if it works better for you.

[bobwhite215]

Its highly unlikely your trailer is airtight but it is smart to be concerned about oxygen.. Personally I would not leave the roof vent open, a window a bit open should be good, they sell battery powered carbon monoxide detectors for peace of mind.

It's not carbon MONoxide you are worried about, unless you are using a combustion source for heat. It is carbon DIoxide which can build up in a small confined area. A CO detector is not going to help with that.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[hugh]

You are right ventilation and fresh air is important.