Dangers to public lands

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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby slowcowboy » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:08 am

Sounds to me like a good way to get booted off the forum and banned for breaking the rules and discussing politics I am staying out of this thread...

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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby slowcowboy » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:13 am

I will say one thing I total disagree with tbis tread..its bunk.

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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby Shadow Catcher » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:41 am

In addition to Utah, nine other states will see their public lands sold off to private interests. According to Chaffetz’s list, those states are Arizona (453,950 acres), Colorado (93,741 acres), Idaho (110,022 acres), Montana (94,520 acres), Nebraska (6,615 acres), Nevada (898,460 acres), New Mexico (813,531 acres), Oregon (70,308 acres), and Wyoming (694,200 acres)
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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby Stacie Tamaki » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:39 am

Some of the prettiest states to even drive through :(

Last spring we went on a 5 week road trip. One day we stopped and made lunch alongside a beautiful river. There was a sign near the boat launch that warned people not to eat the fish they caught there. That was the first clue that the natural beauty had been compromised somehow...

We camped that night at the Beaverhead-Deerlodge National Forest in Anaconda, MT. I wondered why it was the only campground we'd stayed at that offered water that wasn't safe to drink. The trees driving in and all around the campground were dying. More than we'd seen in any other location. Assuming pine beetles I looked it up online weeks later and discovered that the entire area is the largest superfund site in the country with some areas now in use and others that still need to be "cleaned-up." This article is enlightening (and long) for anyone unfamiliar with how superfund sites are created (the pollution here began in 1919) and how cleanups are attempted. I use the word attempted because of the damage done to the nearby town of Opportunity during the clean up process of Anaconda:

http://www.hcn.org/issues/43.16/remediating-the-countrys-largest-superfund-site-on-the-upper-clark-fork-river-in-montana

Though the way these things are done have (I'm only assuming) been improved over time I do not want to see this happen to any other land currently owned by the people.
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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby jonw » Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:45 am

HotRod1 wrote:In the west the government owns over 70% if all the land. In some western states they have renamed areas "wilderness" preserves or areas and the public is not allowed in them at all. The treehugging wackos run the forest service and close most of it to the public. And if you do go where you used to camp as a kid, and it's been named as a preserve for the banana slug, you can be jailed and then be labeled a felon. It would be nice if the land was left open, but if things keep going like they are, only government employees and the elite will be able to go there. If they don't just burn down because they won't allow thinning and management. That is why the fires in western America keep getting worse. Just my two cents from someone who grew up there.


I too would be interested in learning about what national forests, parks, or BLM/gov't. lands are closed to people. I've travelled extensively out west and visited many of them and have never experienced what you claim.
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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby MtnDon » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:39 am

HotRod1 wrote: If they don't just burn down because they won't allow thinning and management. That is why the fires in western America keep getting worse.



I will agree that the thinning process has been far too slow in happening, but it is happening in some NF......

Like much of the western mountains, the Jemez Mountains of New Mexico have suffered from decades of wildfire suppression and the cessation of commercial logging. However, after years of planning and studies we now have a serious thinning effort underway in the mountains around our property. (We are one of 4 or 5 private landowners who ar surrounded by the Santa fe National Forest. We've thinned our land, most of the neighbors have not... but that is another matter.)


I think I'll stick this in a separate topic
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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby Esteban » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:55 pm

Press Release Jan 31, 2017
House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks

WASHINGTON – Congressman Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.) WASHINGTON – Congressman Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.) last night introduced H.J. Res. 46, which seeks to repeal updates to the National Park Service’s “9B” rules. The rules require detailed planning and set safety standards for oil and gas drilling inside the more than 40 national parks that have “split estate” ownership, where the federal government owns the surface but not the subsurface mineral rights.

The resolution is just the latest in a series of moves by federal lawmakers to weaken environmental protections for national parks under the Congressional Review Act (CRA). If these repeals are signed into law under the CRA, it will not only stop these protections, it will also prohibit agencies from issuing similar rules and protections in the future, unless directed by Congress.

The House is set to vote Friday to repeal rules to prevent the waste of methane gas from oil and gas facilities. CRA challenges were also introduced Monday in the House and Senate to repeal Bureau of Land Management “Planning 2.0” rules, which seek to guide an appropriate balance of energy development, conservation and recreation on public lands by better utilizing environmental science.

Below is a statement by Nicholas Lund, Senior Manager of National Parks Conservation Association’s Conservation Programs:

“These challenges are direct attacks on America’s national parks. Each of these rules provides the commonsense protections for national parks that millions of Americans demand. If the Park Service’s drilling rules are repealed, national parks across the country would be subjected to poorly regulated oil and gas drilling, threatening parks’ air, water and wildlife. These attempts to weaken protections put our parks at risk. And by using the Congressional Review Act process, Congress is forever tying the hands of the agencies charged with protecting America’s favorite places. If Congress wants to protect national parks for future generations, it must reject these challenges.”

BACKGROUND

There are more than 40 national parks where the federal government does not own the mineral rights below the surface, including Cuyahoga Valley NP in Ohio, Theodore Roosevelt National Park in North Dakota and Mesa Verde National Park in Colorado.

The 9B rules are updates to rules established in 1978 setting reasonable safeguards for national parks from private oil and gas development. The rules simply require an operator to produce a Plan of Operations before accessing their mineral rights, give the National Park Service (NPS) the authority to conduct safety enforcement and provide standard technical requirements for the safeguarding of national park air, water, and wildlife.

If Congress repeals these rules, drilling could occur in national parks with little more than bare-minimum state regulations. The Park Service will have essentially no authority over oil and gas development proposed inside national parks. Leaks and spills could go unpunished without NPS authority to enforce safety standards. Companies would be able to build roads through national parks to begin drilling, such as the 11-mile road through the heart of Big Cypress National Preserve built to reach an oil and gas lease. Drilling companies would not be required to inform parks or park visitors about when or how drilling operations would occur.

###

About National Parks Conservation Association

Since 1919, the nonpartisan National Parks Conservation Association has been the leading voice in safeguarding our national parks. NPCA and its more than one million members and supporters work together to protect and preserve our nation’s natural, historic, and cultural heritage for future generations. For more information, visit http://www.npca.org.

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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby tony.latham » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:02 am

The bill to sell the public land has been pulled.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/loca ... 91054.html[quote][/quote]

When's this movement going to disappear? :x

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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby Stacie Tamaki » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:05 am

tony.latham wrote:The bill to sell the public land has been pulled.


That's great news, thanks for letting us know so quickly.
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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby Shadow Catcher » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:11 pm

Activism works
"I am withdrawing HR 621. I'm a proud gun owner, hunter and love our public lands. The bill would have disposed of small parcels of lands Pres. Clinton identified as serving no public purpose but groups I support and care about fear it sends the wrong message. The bill was originally introduced several years ago. I look forward to working with you. I hear you and HR 621 dies tomorrow. #keepitpublic #tbt"
I do not particularly believe him, but it is a win for us all. :applause:
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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby MtnDon » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:05 pm

Shadow Catcher wrote:Activism works


At least some of the time it does. You never know though unless you take action when something is dear to your heart.
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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby daveesl77 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:48 pm

Well this addon isn't really political, since both parties were tied to it, but it did happen on this administrations watch. BLM has leased the oil and mineral rights, including hydraulic fracturing, to 843 acres around the Chaco National Historical Park for $3.3 million, none of which goes to the Park or the Navajo tribe. This is beyond disgusting. Chaco is one of the most important world heritage sites on the planet (and I've visited many of them). The two roads entering have been purposefully NOT paved to keep the impact of tourism to a minimum, but allowing access to those of us that are willing to take 20+ miles of washboard, no in park supplies (other than 5 gals of water per day), to spend time in this truly amazing location.

As to the person that said that wilderness areas are denied access areas, nothing could be further from the truth. You might not be able to drive in with your big rV or even an F150, but for those that can still do it, hiking, canoing and other means are available. Public lands are exactly that, public. With that said, there are numerous areas of BLM land that is leased to say a cattle ranch or mining operation, thus fenced off and access can be restricted. I am very familiar with the rules, as I and my family have held multiple placer claims in the Colorado rockies.

We do not need to do a land sell-off to make things look good to special interests. We need to maintain areas to preserve them for future generations. How does selling or lock-leasing tracts of land affect the public at large? In one case, in Utah, an elite group purchased 10 acres from the BLM. These 10 acres controlled access to a national forest in a large area. The normal hunters, fishermen and outdoors people were thus stopped from accessing public lands they had used for years. In return, a small group of individuals got essentially tens of thousands of controlled hunting rights for the price of 10 acres.

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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby HotRod1 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:35 pm

We all have our options. And own experiences. And places that I used to hike and ride horses and yes go run the fire roads in my 4x4 are now off limits and no access is allowed. The only exception is day hikes with a Forrest pass. Plus a parking pass and registering at the forest service office.
Kinda stupid in IMHO.
But growing up logging and in the trucking industry I will admit I'm just a little biased. I have wheeled in the pacific nw, Moab, Rubicon, and the clubs I belonged to would take a lot of disabled vets out for day trips in the woods. We no longer can because those areas are now closed. I agree that public lands belong to the public. So let the public use them.


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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby tony.latham » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:48 pm

The only exception is day hikes with a Forrest pass.


Where is this place?

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Re: Dangers to public lands

Postby HotRod1 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:11 pm

Four federal agencies of the United States government administer the National Wilderness Preservation System, which includes 765 Wildernesses and 109,129,657 acres (441,632.05 km2) as of 2016 . These agencies are:

United States Forest Service
United States National Park Service
United States Bureau of Land Management
United States Fish and Wildlife Service
This is an area larger than Iraq or the state of California. In Alaska, there are 57,425,569 acres (232,393.03 km2) of wilderness. This represents about 52% of the wilderness area in the United States. The National Park Service (NPS) has oversight of 43,890,500 acres (177,619 km2) of wilderness at 60 locations. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has responsibility for 20,702,350 acres (83,779.4 km2) in 71 areas. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) oversees 8,726,011 acres (35,312.91 km2) at 222 unique sites. The Department of Agriculture, the U.S. Forest Service oversees 36,160,078 acres (146,334.64 km2) of wilderness areas in 442 areas. Some wilderness areas are managed by multiple agencies, so the above totals exceed the actual number of units (759) in the system. In addition, some of the 60 NPS areas with wilderness have multiple units.

U.S. Wilderness Areas do not allow motorized or mechanized vehicles, including bicycles. Although camping and fishing are allowed with proper permit, no roads or buildings are constructed and there is also no logging or mining, in compliance with the 1964 Wilderness Act. Wilderness areas within National Forests and Bureau of Land Management areas also allow hunting in season.

Most have now included horses off limits as they are deemed not natural.


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