The EPA wants to know what you think about scrapping air-pol

[kokomoto]

The Clean Power Plan has nothing to do with garbage, clean fluoridated water, acid rain, smog, cute baby ducklings covered in oil, or puppies and kittens being shoveled onto bonfires with pitchforks. I'll give you a hint. We exhale it all day long, and plants thrive on it.

Review it and trash the parts that we don"t need. We' can then use the billions of dollars saved to put refined petroleum products drilled from the earth in our tow vehicles, and go enjoy the great outdoors in our teardrop campers.

[Shadow Catcher]

I have carefully considered "political" and have restricted it to what directly affects us as campers, period!
The latest a "review" of national Monuments, (which often become national parks), could lead to oil drilling, and mining.

[KennethW]

This post should be stopped
It will get to political for this group.

[working on it]

Clean air clean water perfect for camping.jpg (177.73 KiB) Viewed 697 times

Clean air, clean water, great camping. Even wildlife.

So what is the location of the picture?

Off-camera at the Rio Olympics? Seriously, though, air pollution has gone way down in my lifetime(66+ years), but the careless trashing of America continues to this day. I've seen all sorts of trash thrown out of cars in town, including soiled diapers (landed on the hood of a friend's car), and I find it at every campsite I've been to. I've also observed what kind of people litter the most, and they probably supported the Pres with the clean-up agenda. Responsible people don't litter. But as to the Clean Air legislation, a sensible easing-up of EPA standards will not make the air as dirty as it was, but it might help bring back industries that fled overseas to countries that have no pollution standards...and don't get me started on carbon credits and that bs. Yep, this thread will become too political for polite conversation on any forum.

[KennethW]

I've also observed what kind of people litter the most, and they probably supported the Pres with the clean-up agenda. Responsible people don't litter.

Here is how the so called Water Protector treat a Army Corps of Engineers camp ground in ND. The camp ground is in a flood plain

http://insideenergy.org/2017/02/18/clea ... test-camp/
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/f ... -pipeline/

Like I said this thread should be stopped

[kokomoto]

I've also observed what kind of people litter the most, and they probably supported the Pres with the clean-up agenda. Responsible people don't litter.

So in your observation, Trump supporters are irresponsible litterers?

I've made some observations as well.

Here's a recent headline that probably didn't make it into the echo chamber. Those careless, irresponsible, supremely hypocritical environmental activists protesting the DAPL recently left quite a mess. The mess was so massive that a dead body was reportedly found in the rubbish during the taxpayer funded clean up.

"The U.S. Army Corps will spend more than $1 million to clean up the mess left behind by the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and others opposed to the Dakota Access Pipeline in North Dakota."

The Washington Times reported that a total of 8,170 cubic yards of trash and 12 dogs had been abandoned by hoards of “environmental” activists, who’d ironically taken over the site to protest potential water pollution allegedly posed by the DAPL Pipeline. Federal workers and volunteers were left with the clean-up, which was rushed in an attempt to keep the piles of junk from being washed by melted snow into the Cannonball River – the same river that so-called environmentalists had been up in arms about only a few months earlier.
http://www.mrctv.org/blog/dapa-protest- ... -dumpsters

The protests also created significant property damage. More than 544 households reported losses ranging from $15,000 to $20,000 each from crop losses. The total equates to over $8 million in total losses. Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... z4fRriD1eB

[rivernstream]

New here, but this seems to be getting very close to the line and thought several times about weighing in on this --
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=6020

from that post--
Rule Number 2: ... No fighting
You fight, we pull the thread, you keep fighting we pull you.
(See the Zero Tolerance Policy: (ZTP) below for more details)

Very important... * discussions about sex, politics and religion,
and certain bad jokes can lead to fighting. We would suggest that you
refrain from the aforementioned... as they will be carefully monitored, and
pulled as they turn into fighting.

Threads lead strange lives. Many begin well but deteriorate into flaming,
bashing, and general negativity. If a thread becomes dominated by this
type of post, the entire thread will be deleted.

Obviously different opinions...mine are very strong on this matter in fact. However, this forum is perhaps one of the few places where folks from around the country with all kinds of religious, political and cultural backgrounds can speak a common language and perhaps see past the differences. We aren't going to make it out of this if we can't begin to see each other. The original post I think was pretty even handed--it's degrading pretty fast.

[MtnDon]

Those who litter come from all sides of the political arena. It is too bad, very unfortunate, that protesters left behind a big mess. That is another topic though. Let's not get sidetracked. The question was whether or not we wanted to make our opinions known to the EPA.

The EPA has served us very well in general. Large profit oriented corporations need a guiding hand,rules otherwise the drive to maximize profits gets in the way of being responsible environmentally as well as treating workers humanely. In the US, Canada & England a publicaly traded company is first responsible to the shareholders; meaning to make profits for the shareholders. That is #1 and that needs some moderation by rules. Some European and Asian countries have different rules when it comes to publicly traded companies. Companies in those nations are obligated to satisfy social expectations by tending to the interests of employees and other stakeholders, the paper states, including “the communities in which these corporations operate.” More social responsibility than pure profit seeking.

[working on it]

I've also observed what kind of people litter the most, and they probably supported the Pres with the clean-up agenda. Responsible people don't litter.

So in your observation, Trump supporters are irresponsible litterers?

I've made some observations as well.

Here's a recent headline that probably didn't make it into the echo chamber. Those careless, irresponsible, supremely hypocritical environmental activists protesting the DAPL recently left quite a mess. The mess was so massive that a dead body was reportedly found in the rubbish during the taxpayer funded clean up....

You missed my point; the Pres I referred to (politely) wasn't my Pres (Trump), but the previous one, that had the carbon agenda and clean-up fiasco on his plate all along, and used executive privilege to ram-rod them past Congress. President Trump will attempt to fix this. There, you got me to identify my political stance...just for the record, I took a chance (wanting a fresh attitude in Washington), and voted for Obama in 2008, and felt betrayed- badly betrayed. I have a history of voting for the lesser of two evils, as I see them. Drain the swamp.

[kokomoto]

I've also observed what kind of people litter the most, and they probably supported the Pres with the clean-up agenda. Responsible people don't litter.

So in your observation, Trump supporters are irresponsible litterers?

I've made some observations as well.

Here's a recent headline that probably didn't make it into the echo chamber. Those careless, irresponsible, supremely hypocritical environmental activists protesting the DAPL recently left quite a mess. The mess was so massive that a dead body was reportedly found in the rubbish during the taxpayer funded clean up....

You missed my point; the Pres I referred to (politely) wasn't my Pres (Trump), but the previous one, that had the carbon agenda and clean-up fiasco on his plate all along, and used executive privilege to ram-rod them past Congress. President Trump will attempt to fix this. There, you got me to identify my political stance...just for the record, I took a chance (wanting a fresh attitude in Washington), and voted for Obama in 2008, and felt betrayed- badly betrayed. I have a history of voting for the lesser of two evils, as I see them. Drain the swamp.

I did miss your point, and for that I apologize. It was not my intent, however, to get you to identify your political stance. I sincerely did not know which president you were referring to, thus the question mark.

I am truly puzzled as to how folks who are so sincerely concerned, and rightfully so, about the potential for large corporations to oppress the people, but apparently have a huge blind spot for the potential for a large government to do the same or worse. We must be on vigilant guard against both, if we are to preserve our liberty, natural resources, and wild spaces. It is, after all, the massive government which allows corporations that are "too big to fail" to exist. Indeed, mountains of regulations from organizations such as the EPA often favor the large corporations with the resources to keep up with it all.

BTW, the uni-party congress could have shut the previous pres down anytime they chose. We are seeing now that their faux resistance was just for show, and to get votes.

The swamp is vast. It will take Katrina-sized pumps. Let's hope there are a few of them in the White House.

[KennethW]

Ok, let's all bite are tongues. and end this post before it gets ugly. STOP RIGHT HERE.

[working on it]

May I offer my apologies? I have always been politically incorrect, and thus I say things that may offend some people, but that's precisely why I try to avoid political, religious, or ethnic discussions, until I am asked a direct question, or confronted with an ideological trigger, as shown by my reactions to this thread. I violated my own rule, to not discuss politics unless I'm sure that the group around me can reasonably discuss all sides of the topic, but, on the internet, one can never be sure of that happening. I never have brought up my political views on a forum before, but I felt that both sides should be represented, but I went too far. I respect the viewpoints of honest people, honestly stated, with fervor, not fanatacism. Trying to mask my deeper feelings about these matters, I failed, and responded too fervently; for that, I apologize to the forum.

[alaska teardrop]

Trump’s stated goal is to eliminate the Environmental Protection Agency signed into law by President Nixon.

Over those years, I too have witnessed the improvements to our environment in my travels and the three states where I’ve lived (Alaska, California, and Michigan). But, I also see a long way to go.

I’d like to point out that our own U.S. government is responsible for many of the Super Fund clean-up sites. Rocky Flats in Colorado and Hanford in Washington as examples. In fact the military is responsible for the highest number of Super Fund sites in Alaska.

It seems unusual for a government agency to take an online poll to determine policy. You will be responding to Regulation Reform Officer Samantha K. Dravis, a recent Trump EPA hire. Her last job as a lawyer was working with new EPA Director Scott Pruitt attempting to dismantle the EPA in favor of polluting industries. https://www.axios.com/epa-chief-taps-co ... 75088.html

The poll is another Trump sham. I'd guess that if we ever see the results it will be heavily in favor of big money.

[absolutsnwbrdr]

Whew, its getting a little political in here with everyone using that silly T word.

[alaska teardrop]

This thread is about responding to the EPA with our thoughts on the Clean Power Plan. Ironically we will no longer be able to learn about the CPP from the EPA! Scott Pruitt has removed all information relating to the Clean Power Plan and substantial climate science information from the EPA website & replaced it with a picture of Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... b49e7d8273

Now, how democratic is that?