cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

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Re: cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

Postby working on it » Thu May 25, 2017 3:41 pm

Socal Tom wrote:Actual ice will often work better than the cooler packs. I recommend 5 lbs of ice for the next test.
Tom
And I still need rubber (or foam, compressible type) to seal the plastic lids against seepage. I made a thin aluminum bar to help open the inner lid more easily, and it sits in front of the inner cube, on top of the new insulation. When I opened the outer cube at test conclusion, I picked up the aluminum bar to open the inner lid, and the bar was cold. That indicates that the inner cube is leaking "cold" from around the plastic lip. I'll try to find this type, which sticks on, and can also be screwed on, like I did to seal one of my vents.
weatherstrip1.PNG
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Re: cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

Postby dancam » Sun May 28, 2017 5:59 pm

I read most of this thread but not all of it. Have you considered an icemaker and a power inverter? Thats what were using on our trip. Might be able to find both used for cheaper.

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Re: cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

Postby working on it » Sun May 28, 2017 10:42 pm

dancam wrote:I read most of this thread but not all of it. Have you considered an icemaker and a power inverter? Thats what were using on our trip. Might be able to find both used for cheaper.
  • I considered a mini-freezer, but only to convert it to a more efficient mini-fridge, as shown on several YouTube videos. I don't want the food inside totally frozen, but kept at just above freezing, for safe use later. An icemaker just makes ice, right? I don't really want to be constantly moving ice to my other coolers, though I considered that, also. I have three 400 watt inverters I could use, but I don't think that's enough wattage to power even a small dorm fridge. Besides, they're very wasteful of energy, so I would rather just keep a non-powered cooler that works, and not add to my power usage.
  • Then there's the space issue. I don't have room inside my galley for anything larger than my cube/cube. A 1.1 upright fridge would fit, but would add heat into the galley area, and not cool my perishables to a low enough temperature, since they are only capable of cooling 40-45 degrees below ambient temperature, which in Texas, could be upper 90's to high 100's, at any time. 100 degrees-40 degree cooling capability would keep the food at 60 or so, which Gordon Ramsey would throw a hissy fit over. And that would be after running the fridge at it's highest setting, using a lot of energy, and heating up the galley area (where flammables also reside).
  • trailer galley (very little room for cooler).png
    trailer galley (very little room for cooler).png (453.4 KiB) Viewed 727 times
    the cube was chosen as the largest size to fit in this space
  • outer shell size.png
    outer shell size.png (96.67 KiB) Viewed 727 times
    I could squeeze in a 20"x20'x20" cube, at most
2013 HHRv "squareback/squaredrop", rugged, 4x8 TTT, 2225 lbs
  • *3500 lb Dexter EZ-Lube braked axle, 3000 lb.springs, active-progressive bumpstop suspension
  • *27 x 8.5-14LT AT tires (x 3) *Weight Distribution system for single-beam tongue
  • *100% LED's & GFCI outlets, 3x fans, AM/FM/CD/Aux. *A/C & heat, Optima AGM, inverter & charger(s)
  • *extended-run, on-board, 2500w generator *Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern, Ikea grill, vintage skillet
  • *zinc/stainless front & side racks *98"L x 6" diameter rod & reel carrier tube on roof
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Re: cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

Postby dancam » Sun May 28, 2017 11:56 pm

Yes, an icemaker just makes ice. Were planning to plug ours in while driving. When we stop dump the ice it made into a container in the cooler. Dump the melted icewater from another container into the icemaker when we start driving again.
Ours takes 170-230watts while running. Fairly small, nicely fits behind a seat...
Just using it to make ice to put into waterproof containers in the cooler. That way stuff wont get too terribly wet, our food doesnt get too warm and were not always stopping for ice on our road trip. Thats the hope anyway.
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Re: cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

Postby daveesl77 » Mon May 29, 2017 7:01 am

We have an Igloo countertop icemaker (Walmart about $100 ) and have used it for years. It will run from 120v or a 1200 watt inverter, but remember it is always running, unlike a 120v dorm fridge which will cycle on and off. We love ours and due to it, we almost never buy ice. It is also pretty loud, but makes a bunch of ice and fairly fast. I think it paid for itself the first year.

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Re: cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

Postby working on it » Wed May 31, 2017 7:45 pm

working on it wrote:... I still need rubber (or foam, compressible type) to seal the plastic lids against seepage. I made a thin aluminum bar to help open the inner lid more easily, and it sits in front of the inner cube, on top of the new insulation. When I opened the outer cube at test conclusion, I picked up the aluminum bar to open the inner lid, and the bar was cold. That indicates that the inner cube is leaking "cold" from around the plastic lip. I'll try to find this type, which sticks on...
  • Got the EPDM Foam weatherstrip via Amazon yesterday, and just now used one -half of it (there are two strips joined in the center; I separated them, and used all of one side). I attached the seal to both lids, on the outside inner edge, so it will seal the gap(s) when closed. I'm not sure how well the adhesive backing will hold, so I'm going to let the cube{s} stay closed for a few days, and see if the seals will stay in place, before the next test. If the adhesive doesn't hold, I'll attach the spare strip of material with Loctite Marine Adhesive. After that, if it won't hold fast, I've got an alternative plan....
  • epdm foam on lids.png
    epdm foam on lids.png (287.04 KiB) Viewed 693 times
    thin foam rubber to seal cold leaking out
  • EPDM foam weatherstrip, marine adhesive.png
    EPDM foam weatherstrip, marine adhesive.png (174.51 KiB) Viewed 693 times
    self-adhesive tape, or extra grip adhesive
  • Start of new test (2145 hours, 6-7-2017). EPDM foam tape has adhered OK, so I am duplicating the prior test procedure to see if the new foam barrier will make a difference.
  • test with foam seals 2145 hours 6-7-2017.jpg
    test with foam seals 2145 hours 6-7-2017.jpg (88.16 KiB) Viewed 656 times
    temps. only slightly different from other test start
2013 HHRv "squareback/squaredrop", rugged, 4x8 TTT, 2225 lbs
  • *3500 lb Dexter EZ-Lube braked axle, 3000 lb.springs, active-progressive bumpstop suspension
  • *27 x 8.5-14LT AT tires (x 3) *Weight Distribution system for single-beam tongue
  • *100% LED's & GFCI outlets, 3x fans, AM/FM/CD/Aux. *A/C & heat, Optima AGM, inverter & charger(s)
  • *extended-run, on-board, 2500w generator *Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern, Ikea grill, vintage skillet
  • *zinc/stainless front & side racks *98"L x 6" diameter rod & reel carrier tube on roof
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Re: cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

Postby working on it » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:41 pm

  • Results of test 1: 60 degrees. (60-41)=19 degrees rise, over 72 hours, equals .2639 degrees an hour, in moderate ambient temperatures. Not as good as I had hoped for, but with more cooler protection (a wet blanket on top?), and a rubber seal inside the lips of both cubes (I never found my leftover weatherstripping to use before testing started), and perhaps more ice inside and/or partially freezing the foodstuffs inside...this cooler may actually work. I'll try another test, soon, after improvements
  • Results of test 2: Exactly the same 60 degree temperature, in virtually the same test conditions and time span. The additional EPDM foam seal didn't help at all, despite what I thought would be a leak-proof lid (both lids were sealed with the foam strips). Unless my next, and final, modification in my quest for a cold cooler, works as I hope, then I'll have to partially freeze the contents, and give up on the "ice packs" (which seem to loose their "cool" way too quickly), and resort to regular ice. Another cunning plan, all for nothing.
  • results 6-10-17.png
    results 6-10-17.png (418.31 KiB) Viewed 654 times
    picture speaks for itself; no better than test 1
2013 HHRv "squareback/squaredrop", rugged, 4x8 TTT, 2225 lbs
  • *3500 lb Dexter EZ-Lube braked axle, 3000 lb.springs, active-progressive bumpstop suspension
  • *27 x 8.5-14LT AT tires (x 3) *Weight Distribution system for single-beam tongue
  • *100% LED's & GFCI outlets, 3x fans, AM/FM/CD/Aux. *A/C & heat, Optima AGM, inverter & charger(s)
  • *extended-run, on-board, 2500w generator *Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern, Ikea grill, vintage skillet
  • *zinc/stainless front & side racks *98"L x 6" diameter rod & reel carrier tube on roof
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Re: cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

Postby Redneck Packrat » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:56 am

Dead air is as effective, arguably more-so, than insulation. Nothing to conduct heat, convection requires movement. I'm not so sure that your GS between things isn't hindering very slightly. Try a strip of tape around the outside where the lid sets down on the box, maybe? It's all about stopping convection with materials that don't promote conduction, and minimizing radiation, and at the same time *inducing* convection inside the box from the foods to your heat sink (ice). Shape of the ice, location of the ice, arrangement of the heat donors (canteen, steaks, etc.) and the surface area of the ice.

Ice boxes (not refrigerators, their predecessors) had provisions for the ice being at the top of the insulated box, with a pan and drip drain to keep the food (semi-) dry.

Not saying any of this will actually work in a mobile cooler situation, but just throwing out the list-of-wants that you might be able to incorporate somehow.
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Re: cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

Postby MADTRAPPER » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:37 am

I'm going to try the dry ice at bottom of cooler toping off with ice. cubes. Wrapping the hole cooler in a insulating blanket.


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Re: cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

Postby Socal Tom » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:21 am

working on it wrote:
  • Results of test 1: 60 degrees. (60-41)=19 degrees rise, over 72 hours, equals .2639 degrees an hour, in moderate ambient temperatures. Not as good as I had hoped for, but with more cooler protection (a wet blanket on top?), and a rubber seal inside the lips of both cubes (I never found my leftover weatherstripping to use before testing started), and perhaps more ice inside and/or partially freezing the foodstuffs inside...this cooler may actually work. I'll try another test, soon, after improvements
  • Results of test 2: Exactly the same 60 degree temperature, in virtually the same test conditions and time span. The additional EPDM foam seal didn't help at all, despite what I thought would be a leak-proof lid (both lids were sealed with the foam strips). Unless my next, and final, modification in my quest for a cold cooler, works as I hope, then I'll have to partially freeze the contents, and give up on the "ice packs" (which seem to loose their "cool" way too quickly), and resort to regular ice. Another cunning plan, all for nothing.
  • results 6-10-17.png
    picture speaks for itself; no better than test 1


It takes about 144 Btu/pound to melt ice, and warming the water from 32 F to 62, requires another 30 Btu. So 174ish Btu/lb in round numbers. Assuming you had 2 pounds of ice ( meaning water) then the ice chest took in around 350 BTU ( not including the BTU absorbed by the water in the jug) Assuming you had 2 lbs of ice, then 3 lbs should do the job for that time period under those conditions. To improve your odds of success, pre-cool the inside of the cooler with the ice packs for a day, then add the 3 lbs of ice.
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Re: cooler inside a cooler; re-purposing "useless" coolers

Postby working on it » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:54 pm

Socal Tom wrote:
working on it wrote:
  • Results of test 1: 60 degrees. (60-41)=19 degrees rise, over 72 hours, equals .2639 degrees an hour, in moderate ambient temperatures. Not as good as I had hoped for, but with more cooler protection (a wet blanket on top?), and a rubber seal inside the lips of both cubes (I never found my leftover weatherstripping to use before testing started), and perhaps more ice inside and/or partially freezing the foodstuffs inside...this cooler may actually work. I'll try another test, soon, after improvements
  • Results of test 2: Exactly the same 60 degree temperature, in virtually the same test conditions and time span. The additional EPDM foam seal didn't help at all, despite what I thought would be a leak-proof lid (both lids were sealed with the foam strips). Unless my next, and final, modification in my quest for a cold cooler, works as I hope, then I'll have to partially freeze the contents, and give up on the "ice packs" (which seem to loose their "cool" way too quickly), and resort to regular ice. Another cunning plan, all for nothing.
  • results 6-10-17.png
    picture speaks for itself; no better than test 1


It takes about 144 Btu/pound to melt ice, and warming the water from 32 F to 62, requires another 30 Btu. So 174ish Btu/lb in round numbers. Assuming you had 2 pounds of ice ( meaning water) then the ice chest took in around 350 BTU ( not including the BTU absorbed by the water in the jug) Assuming you had 2 lbs of ice, then 3 lbs should do the job for that time period under those conditions. To improve your odds of success, pre-cool the inside of the cooler with the ice packs for a day, then add the 3 lbs of ice.
Tom
  • My next/last plan is to use a piece of the mylar-faced denim insulation I used to make a "cozy" for my large Coleman Extreme cooler (if I can find the remaining scrap I had left), or use a section of the foil/fiberglass ducting insulation (with the tube removed) leftover/spares from my A/C install. I'll just remove the hard foam insert I put on top of the inner cube, and stuff this other insulation on top, before strapping the outer lid closed. Might help a little. Other than that, I'll follow your advice, and use real ice (nobody nearby sells dry ice, to try), pre-cooling the inner cube.
  • MADTRAPPER wrote:I'm going to try the dry ice at bottom of cooler toping off with ice. cubes. Wrapping the hole cooler in a insulating blanket.
  • If I find enough insulation scraps leftover, then maybe a cube "cozy" will follow.
2013 HHRv "squareback/squaredrop", rugged, 4x8 TTT, 2225 lbs
  • *3500 lb Dexter EZ-Lube braked axle, 3000 lb.springs, active-progressive bumpstop suspension
  • *27 x 8.5-14LT AT tires (x 3) *Weight Distribution system for single-beam tongue
  • *100% LED's & GFCI outlets, 3x fans, AM/FM/CD/Aux. *A/C & heat, Optima AGM, inverter & charger(s)
  • *extended-run, on-board, 2500w generator *Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern, Ikea grill, vintage skillet
  • *zinc/stainless front & side racks *98"L x 6" diameter rod & reel carrier tube on roof
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