Tire pressure?

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Tire pressure?

Postby hwitten » Wed May 30, 2018 4:21 pm

1700lb Ailiner Ascape. 13in wheels. 8ply rating. Original wheels/ tires.
First trip out and on Alberta frost heave roads I get a lot of bounce using factory 50lbs.
By a lot I mean stuff getting rearranged in rear cupboards and fridge.
Need to figure out something better.
Wondering what folks are carrying for air etc. Maybe go 14in wheels and passenger rated tires?

Heinz



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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby noseoil » Thu May 31, 2018 7:53 am

We don't tow with a "full" weight load on the tires, but I never run under 45# on our 50# rated tires. Trailer tires are made to run fully inflated, not under-inflated. You will have excessive wear on the tires if they are soft, as well as excessive heat build up in summer weather.

If the suspension is too stiff, you might consider removing a leaf spring to soften the ride if it isn't a torsion axle. I recently went to a 3500# axle from a 2000# axle & it's a bit stiffer, but we've found it's better in general for our needs. There is a stiffer ride, but we run heavy enough that there isn't any real bounce on rougher roads, just a bit more shaking in the galley & some sorting of things in the shelves that wasn't there before when we stop.

The worst problem we've had with the new axle was a Blu-ray player coming loose on one really terrible road & hanging by its power cord to slam against the flat screen TV face most of the way home. Years ago the road to Parker Canyon Lake just south of Tucson was dirt, but paving might have actually made it worse! I wasn't sure how things were going to be after that. The screen's a bit buggered in a few places (pock marks along a line from the repeated bashing & pounding of the Blu-ray as it dangled by the power cord & swayed happily down the bad road), but it's still working well enough & the Blu-ray player is running like a champ. This is not an endorsement, but the Sony Blu-ray player & Samsung TV are both pretty rugged models with good durability and resistance to vibration & slamming. I don't recommend this type of testing for trailer electronics...
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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby hwitten » Thu May 31, 2018 8:07 am

noseoil wrote:We don't tow with a "full" weight load on the tires, but I never run under 45# on our 50# rated tires. Trailer tires are made to run fully inflated, not under-inflated. You will have excessive wear on the tires if they are soft, as well as excessive heat build up in summer weather.

If the suspension is too stiff, you might consider removing a leaf spring to soften the ride if it isn't a torsion axle. I recently went to a 3500# axle from a 2000# axle & it's a bit stiffer, but we've found it's better in general for our needs. There is a stiffer ride, but we run heavy enough that there isn't any real bounce on rougher roads, just a bit more shaking in the galley & some sorting of things in the shelves that wasn't there before when we stop.

The worst problem we've had with the new axle was a Blu-ray player coming loose on one really terrible road & hanging by its power cord to slam against the flat screen TV face most of the way home. Years ago the road to Parker Canyon Lake just south of Tucson was dirt, but paving might have actually made it worse! I wasn't sure how things were going to be after that. The screen's a bit buggered in a few places (pock marks along a line from the repeated bashing & pounding of the Blu-ray as it dangled by the power cord & swayed happily down the bad road), but it's still working well enough & the Blu-ray player is running like a champ. This is not an endorsement, but the Sony Blu-ray player & Samsung TV are both pretty rugged models with good durability and resistance to vibration & slamming. I don't recommend this type of testing for trailer electronics...

Thank you noseoil.
I’m going to try 43lbs and monitor with tpms. Will also do a self imposed speed limit of 90/55 Kmh/mph when traffic allows. Not always possible on 2 lane with semi at back door but will try.


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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby hwitten » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:32 pm

Did the 1100km trip back at 43 lbs cold and 100kmh max.

Was much improved. I can live with that but will do some more research so any suggestions welcomed.

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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby dancam » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:13 am

Hey, what weight are your springs rated for? Using 2000 pound (combined) springs will help a lot. Excessive bounce is usually caused buy using like 4000 pound springs on a 1700 pound trailer.... are your tires radial or bias ply?

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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby hwitten » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:02 am

2500 lb. Dexter Torsion Axle, Loadstar ST185/80R13.

Empty weight of trailer is 1630 lbs. Maybe I just have to carry more junk :)
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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby working on it » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:34 pm

hwitten wrote:2500 lb. Dexter Torsion Axle, Loadstar ST185/80R13.

Empty weight of trailer is 1630 lbs. Maybe I just have to carry more junk :)
  • My set-up is a bit heavier, and I use specifically designed additions to eliminate bounce on my squareback TTT. I have a 3500 lb Dexter EZ Lube axle, non-cambered, with brakes, 3000 lb (combined) leaf springs, with an added active/progressive bumpstop/shock absorber system (always in contact with the axle), on 27 x 8.5-14LT General Grabber AT2 tires (@ the full recommended pressure of 50 psi). Weight of my trailer, fully loaded, is 1989 lbs, with everything but the kitchen sink (give me time...it's on my list); I DO carry more junk!
  • There is no bounce or sway (I use a single Weight Distributing spring-bar, adapted for use on my single-beam tongue, which provides lots of downforce on the tongue), which I attribute to the tires' construction (semi-flexible, tall sidewalls), the progressive shock absorbing action of the rubber bumpstop always acting upon any road imperfections, and the heavy tongue weight of 253 lbs (12.7% of total) with the addition of the WD-provided downforce.
  • I have used the full pressure on all my trailer tires for many years, when loaded, but I have have experienced bounce on my tandem-axled car-hauler (no shock absorbers at all), at those pressures, when lightly or completely unloaded. So, I think that the tire pressure needs adjusting downward from the recommended settings, only when there is a drastic reduction in the weight of the carried loads that the suspension & tires were designed for. I previously have reduced the pressure on my unloaded trailer's tires (ST 225/75-15) following this chart for ST tires, and the trailer didn't bounce, anymore. Your tire size is listed here, as well, so it may be of use to you, too.
  • MAXXIS load vs inflation table for ST trailer tires.JPG
    MAXXIS load vs inflation table for ST trailer tires.JPG (136.52 KiB) Viewed 792 times
2013 HHRv "squareback/squaredrop", semi-offroad, 4x8 TTT, 2065 lbs
  • *3500 lb Dexter EZ-Lube axle, w/brakes, 3000 lb. springs, & active-progressive bumpstops
  • *27x8.5-14LT all-terrain tires (x 3) *modified Weight Distribution system for single-beam tongue
  • *LED lighting, triple fans, Pioneer stereo *A/C & 110vac heat, Optima AGM, inverter & charger(s)
  • *extended-run, on-board, 2500w generator *Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern, Ikea grill
  • *zinc/stainless steel front racks *96"L x 6"Dia. rooftop fishing rod/reel carrier
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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby hwitten » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:51 pm

Thank you for the chart. Looks like I guessed reasonably close :)

Trailer parked for a while now so will be checking with manufacturer and dealer and any other sources I can find.
Might have to trade extra wear for comfort but that would be ok.
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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby gudmund » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:00 pm

have used the 'tire PSI chart' posted here by -'working on it'- for years now with no problems when using trailer tires. With my old tear I ran them from 30/35 PSI (205-75Rx14)which weighted 1100 lbs loaded (the 50 PSI max printed on the side of the tire was just too much!!) (the last year I had it - it got an even "much" better ride when I replaced the trailer tires with regular car tires which YES I liked much better!!) Have now replaced the old tear with a new one and I stuck again with trailer tires - same tire size as the old tear - with this trailer weighting 1400 lbs loaded - am running the PSI about the same as I was before, 35 psi and it is doing fine so far. (and YES when these wear down far enough, this trailer will be getting car tires to replace them also!)
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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby Sheddie » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:40 am

I also run car tyres on our TD. Ours weighs around 620kg and I have a No.9 Dexter torflex axle. The axle we bought was a 5 stud so we went with 14" rims as they are easier to find in 5 stud than 13". Also amongst the stack of tyres I have stashed in the back of the shed, left from when I sold my tyre shop a few years ago, I have a bigger selection of 14".
Considering the total weight of these things, the car tyres have ample load rating for the job. I am running 195/60R14 with 35 to 38 psi, which is just under their max . The over all diameter on those is less than the 185/80R13 that you are using. Also if you keep the pressures up, you will havea lot less tendance for swaying, and that goes for the rear tyres on the tow vehicle as well. The thing is, it is the springs that should be determining the ride quality, not the tyres.
hwitten wrote: Will also do a self imposed speed limit of 90/55 Kmh/mph when traffic allows. Not always possible on 2 lane with semi at back door but will try.

Here in New Zealand the speed limit for all heavy vehicles (gvm over 3500kg ) and all vehicles towing a trailer (regardless of size) is 90 kph. :vroom:
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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby working on it » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:28 am

Sheddie wrote:
hwitten wrote: Will also do a self imposed speed limit of 90/55 Kmh/mph when traffic allows. Not always possible on 2 lane with semi at back door but will try.
...Here in New Zealand the speed limit for all heavy vehicles (gvm over 3500kg ) and all vehicles towing a trailer (regardless of size) is 90 kph. :vroom:
  • In Texas, many of our highways (interstate) have 75 mph speed limits, and some state highways, including two-laners, have 70 mph. That given, it's not uncommon to be passed by some guy doing 85 with his/hers lifted truck pulling a toy-hauler or boat trailer. I'm a lead-foot, too, and I've been known to push the limits of legality, when towing my car-hauler to races, or now, my squareback TTT, when going camping. Especially since there are always gawkers who just have to crowd you, or stay fixed in your blind-spot, I find that it's sometimes safer to go faster. It's also my practice to try to avoid clumping together in packs of mixed vehicles, constantly switching lanes and getting passed by and/or passing the same vehicles multiple times (when you get trapped behind a slow-moving vehicle).
  • from USA Today
    The maximum speed for a towing vehicle in Texas is 70 mph on the interstate unless posted otherwise. Under code 545.352, that's only in the daytime; it applies to passenger vehicles and light trucks pulling small trailers less than 26 feet long, carrying a boat, motorcycle or animals. For such small trailers, the nighttime maximum is 65 mph. For other kinds of trailers, such as fifth wheels, the maximum daytime speed is 60 mph, and that maximum drops by 5 mph at night. Common sense trumps the posted speed limit: If it's foggy, make sure to travel at 55, the police can cite people who drive to fast for dangerous driving.
  • Since Texas roads are sometimes very rough, and road debris (primarily, in my experience, from blown 18-wheeler tires!) is literally everywhere, not to mention blazing-hot surface temperatures at least six months a year, I find that keeping my ST trailer tires at max, my truck tires at near-max, and passenger tires slightly over the sticker recommendations of the car manufacturer, have worked best for me on my many vehicles, trailers included, over 50+ years of driving, and 40+ years of towing trailers, and well over 1 million miles (my yearly commuting alone, averaged over 30000 miles). Now that I've switched to LT truck tires on my TTT, I have been using 50 psi as the sidewall "max cold inflation #" states. The 2000 lb trailer handles well, with no bounce nor sway (perhaps aided by the weight distribution set-up, and the active/progressive, shock-absorbing bump stops).
  • IMHO, if you are going to drive at or above the posted speed limits, and/or your load is over 50% of the load rating of springs or tires, the higher tire pressures are a must. Under-inflated tires are a real hazard, and the reason the government forced the use of TPMS systems on all cars after 2004 (I think).
  • P.S. I carry tire pressure gauges, and an infrared temperature sensing gun, in my 2004 Chevy 2500HD tow vehicle, in lieu of any TPMS system, and check temps at every stop, and all pressures before leaving home, and sometimes before returning home. Works for me!
2013 HHRv "squareback/squaredrop", semi-offroad, 4x8 TTT, 2065 lbs
  • *3500 lb Dexter EZ-Lube axle, w/brakes, 3000 lb. springs, & active-progressive bumpstops
  • *27x8.5-14LT all-terrain tires (x 3) *modified Weight Distribution system for single-beam tongue
  • *LED lighting, triple fans, Pioneer stereo *A/C & 110vac heat, Optima AGM, inverter & charger(s)
  • *extended-run, on-board, 2500w generator *Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern, Ikea grill
  • *zinc/stainless steel front racks *96"L x 6"Dia. rooftop fishing rod/reel carrier
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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby Sheddie » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:53 pm

working on it wrote:Since Texas roads are sometimes very rough, and road debris (primarily, in my experience, from blown 18-wheeler tires!) is literally everywhere, not to mention blazing-hot surface temperatures at least six months a year, I find that keeping my ST trailer tires at max, my truck tires at near-max, and passenger tires slightly over the sticker recommendations of the car manufacturer, have worked best for me on my many vehicles, trailers included, over 50+ years of driving, and 40+ years of towing trailers, and well over 1 million miles (my yearly commuting alone, averaged over 30000 miles). Now that I've switched to LT truck tires on my TTT, I have been using 50 psi as the sidewall "max cold inflation #" states. The 2000 lb trailer handles well, with no bounce nor sway (perhaps aided by the weight distribution set-up, and the active/progressive, shock-absorbing bump stops).[*]IMHO, if you are going to drive at or above the posted speed limits, and/or your load is over 50% of the load rating of springs or tires, the higher tire pressures are a must. Under-inflated tires are a real hazard, and the reason the government forced the use of TPMS systems on all cars after 2004 (I think). [*]P.S. I carry tire pressure gauges, and an infrared temperature sensing gun, in my 2004 Chevy 2500HD tow vehicle, in lieu of any TPMS system, and check temps at every stop, and all pressures before leaving home, and sometimes before returning home. Works for me![/list]
:thumbsup: Good comments. Under inflated tyres generate a lot of extra heat which can ultimately result in tyre failure. I don't carry a temp gun (would be nice to have though :thinking: ) but regularly give the tyres and hubs the touch test.
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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby 2bits » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:16 pm

Sounds like you may want to carry some cinder blocks over the axle to let the axle flex more instead of riding so tight.
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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby hwitten » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:48 pm

2bits wrote:Sounds like you may want to carry some cinder blocks over the axle to let the axle flex more instead of riding so tight.

Not sure if you're serious or pulling my chain but I have thought about adding some weight so I'm taking your suggestion as serious, thank you :)
Was thinking of dumbbell weights instead of cinder blocks though.

Wondering how much weight would be needed to have any effect.
Also been trying to determine a method of testing on local highways which aren't quite as bad as Alberta's.
My thought is to use a wifi cam monitoring a jug on the floor, filled with coloured liquid.
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Re: Tire pressure?

Postby working on it » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:09 am

hwitten wrote:
2bits wrote:Sounds like you may want to carry some cinder blocks over the axle to let the axle flex more instead of riding so tight.

Not sure if you're serious or pulling my chain but I have thought about adding some weight so I'm taking your suggestion as serious, thank you :)
Was thinking of dumbbell weights instead of cinder blocks though.

Wondering how much weight would be needed to have any effect.
Also been trying to determine a method of testing on local highways which aren't quite as bad as Alberta's.
My thought is to use a wifi cam monitoring a jug on the floor, filled with coloured liquid.
  • That might be a good way of detecting the amount of bounce you have, but if you plan on hauling extra weights over your axle as a regular thing, to counter the bounce, then may I suggest using items needed at camp, as the weights?
  • I didn't have a bounce problem with my TTT, but a lack of tongue weight, instead. I solved this by putting as much weight as I could, as far forward as possible, consisting of items for camping. I folded my mattress(s) in half, and strapped-in heavy cargo to the inside front wall of the cabin. I had already installed an E-track to the front wall. and put my doors as far forward as I could, to enable cargo to be carried, easily slid-in & out, over the carpeted floor (registered as a cargo-utility trailer, I felt it would be useful as such, in an emergency).
  • Initially, I carried two Aquatainers (at 63 lbs each), and a stocked-full ice chest (at 60-65 lbs), giving me the extra tongue weight I needed at the time. Then, later, it was just the Aquatainers, after more weight was moved to a larger tongue box, then finally, after installing two front/roof racks, I finally carry no cargo strapped into the cabin (a few lighter items are stowed there, until I get to camp, just sitting on the mattress - my chair, two side tents in their carry bags, and my side tables).
  • Dumbell weights or cinder blocks (though messy, with concrete crumbling off), could be useful items to carry along anyway, since they could be employed as hold-down weight for side-tents and/or canopies. Oftentimes, there is no good ground for staking them down, and I use weights to do so, instead. I also secure my canopy legs to my TTT, since I cover the trailer with a canopy, offset so that one side is touching it, and I get a covered entry/sitting area over the other side.
2013 HHRv "squareback/squaredrop", semi-offroad, 4x8 TTT, 2065 lbs
  • *3500 lb Dexter EZ-Lube axle, w/brakes, 3000 lb. springs, & active-progressive bumpstops
  • *27x8.5-14LT all-terrain tires (x 3) *modified Weight Distribution system for single-beam tongue
  • *LED lighting, triple fans, Pioneer stereo *A/C & 110vac heat, Optima AGM, inverter & charger(s)
  • *extended-run, on-board, 2500w generator *Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern, Ikea grill
  • *zinc/stainless steel front racks *96"L x 6"Dia. rooftop fishing rod/reel carrier
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