Glue, Nails and Screws... oh my!

[greenchicken]

In one of the first How To I read they wrote this.

Polyurethane glue is going to be an important part of the trailer construction. It fills gaps, is not brittle (like yellow wood glue) and is extremely binding and strong..... roof and bed will be bonded together with this polyurethane glue, in essence creating a monocoque. In addition, the teardrop shape of the roof line increases the strength over a square box because forces are transferred around the curves down to the base

Basically we are talk gin about Gorilla Glue. OK... fine with me, I use this all the time.

Any comments about using screw or lag bolt to hold the wall to the cross beams.

And when it come to the roof can I use a my pneumatic stable gun... since the glue will hold it down and fiber glass will be going over everything?

[edgeau]

Glue and screw is the refrain. Everywhere I glue and screw. Not sure? Glue and screw...

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[Aguyfromohio]

Glue and screw is the refrain. Everywhere I glue and screw. Not sure? Glue and screw...

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Amen brother.

I also use a small nail gun that shoots tiny 18 gage wire brads in visible trim.

[GPW]

The name of the TD building game is to make all your “attachments / joins " as sound as possible , but still have a degree of flexibility it will need for “road stresses” … WHATEVER it takes , or Both … and Fiberglass /Kevlar/Spectra ( depending on your budget …)

And when you talk about Glue, it’s the surface preparation and application that’s Important … It can be the best glue in the world but if not used right , it can be much less effective …

[swoody126]

the ubiquitous "they" say that a good glue joint will be stronger than the wood on either side of the joint

when building boats w/ epoxy a common practice is to use screws to hold the parts in place while the pox cures and then remove the screws filling the holes w/ thickened pox WHICH has proven over time to hold parts together permanently

personally i leave screws in pace when using anything other than epoxy for bonding

the above personal comment(s) relate to building with the stick framing process

when doing stitch n glue or stitch n tape builds all the metalic or plastic mechanical fasteners are removed prior to finishing because epoxy is the bonding agent and it is proven to work

over the last 3 years i have been involved with boat builds where the boats became the property/toys of teenagers who "put them thru their paces"

some were total epoxy builds(screws removed)

one was a total TiteBond III build(screws left in)

one was a total PL-Premium 3x build(screws left in)

and several were built w/ a combination of TiteBond III and epoxy(all screws removed)

though one of the boats was lost in a little wind storm the rest of them are all still in service across the southern US

over the years i have also been involved in boat builds where all parts were bonded with epoxy and stapled in place while the pox cured and then simply left in place because it would have been a stinker to remove them not because they were needed for strength

new products are surfacing all the time and IMHO putting them to the "acid test" by turning the built items over to teen agers fills that bill

btw, i was a junior high shop teacher in my last life and am still involved in youth workshops where small boats are the kid's quest...

sw

[redbicycle]

In one of the first How To I read they wrote this.

Polyurethane glue is going to be an important part of the trailer construction. It fills gaps, is not brittle (like yellow wood glue) and is extremely binding and strong..... roof and bed will be bonded together with this polyurethane glue, in essence creating a monocoque. In addition, the teardrop shape of the roof line increases the strength over a square box because forces are transferred around the curves down to the base

Basically we are talk gin about Gorilla Glue. OK... fine with me, I use this all the time.

Any comments about using screw or lag bolt to hold the wall to the cross beams.

And when it come to the roof can I use a my pneumatic stable gun... since the glue will hold it down and fiber glass will be going over everything?

My plan is epoxy and screw the joist and epoxy and brad nail the roof ply. I am only using brad nails because the staple gun I have is a smaller one that can't take long enough staples to shoot through the plywood.

[Tomterrific]

The urethane glue most suggested is PL Premium. It is more like a hard caulk and is strong as anything. Some dripped out of my gun onto a tire. I figured the blob would peel off as some as the trailer moved. Two hundred miles later I noticed the grey spot of worn glue. It never came off just flattened from hitting the road. Not only is this stuff strong, it keeps moisture from getting through the edge of a glue joint because of its caulk like qualities. Good stuff.

Screws were used to hold joints until the glue set. They were left in place. Small 1" screws with finish washers were used inside to hold the glued exterior battens until the glue set. The look is vintage aircraft or yacht. These same small screws were used on the exterior to attach Windows and vent. I filled the inside of the finish washer with rope/clay caulk which made a waterproof seal. I am quite fond of finish washers and their look.

I also used a tiny brad nailer to hold glued things in place. Most notable is the thin interior ply against the glued 1 x 2 roof ribs. I laid on my back and used my stocking feet to torture the ply into the bend. I would have been better to pre bend the ply by leaving it sit overnight in a bend.

Tt

[Esteban]

A narrow crown stapler enables you to quickly attach and glue plywood to a teardrop's framework or rafters. Staples can significantly reduce/replace the time and effort required when you'd use a multitude of clamps or weights instead. A pin nailer or a brad nailer could be used instead. A pin nail can be left in place and not visibly mar the appearance of plywood.

I prefer using a narrow crown stapler because it has a good clamping force. Using glue, adhesive, or epoxy and a narrow crown stapler seems like a "belt and suspenders" solution.

[tony.latham]

My plan is epoxy and screw the joist and epoxy and brad nail the roof ply.

I'm sure that'll work... but a caulk gun loaded with PL will save a lot of time and the squeeze out is easy to clean. If you go this route, the big tubes will save you money.





Tony

p.s. My 1/4" pneumatic stapler is damn handy -- especially for the ceiling/roof. And BTW, I quit Gorilla Glue. Too messy with that foam squeeze out.

[Tom&Shelly]

the ubiquitous "they" say that a good glue joint will be stronger than the wood on either side of the joint

when building boats w/ epoxy a common practice is to use screws to hold the parts in place while the pox cures and then remove the screws filling the holes w/ thickened pox WHICH has proven over time to hold parts together permanently

personally i leave screws in pace when using anything other than epoxy for bonding

the above personal comment(s) relate to building with the stick framing process

when doing stitch n glue or stitch n tape builds all the metalic or plastic mechanical fasteners are removed prior to finishing because epoxy is the bonding agent and it is proven to work

over the last 3 years i have been involved with boat builds where the boats became the property/toys of teenagers who "put them thru their paces"

some were total epoxy builds(screws removed)

one was a total TiteBond III build(screws left in)

one was a total PL-Premium 3x build(screws left in)

and several were built w/ a combination of TiteBond III and epoxy(all screws removed)

though one of the boats was lost in a little wind storm the rest of them are all still in service across the southern US

over the years i have also been involved in boat builds where all parts were bonded with epoxy and stapled in place while the pox cured and then simply left in place because it would have been a stinker to remove them not because they were needed for strength

new products are surfacing all the time and IMHO putting them to the "acid test" by turning the built items over to teen agers fills that bill

btw, i was a junior high shop teacher in my last life and am still involved in youth workshops where small boats are the kid's quest...

sw

Hi SW,

Since you've used TiteBond III, any observations on how well it held up?

We've used it to glue our sandwich floor together (including the foam) and plan on doing the same with our walls. Just clamped and weighted until the glue set, no screws. Seems like it worked well on the floor, but since we're in the middle of our build, we haven't seen how it holds up over time yet.

Got a gallon of the stuff so that's a sunk cost. We plan on gluing the walls to the floor with PL Premium backing it up with screws.

Thank you!

Tom

[working on it]

How about adding bolts and brackets to your list?

*Since my squareback trailer was to be made of straight or miter-cut 3/4" ACX pre-sanded plywood, with no pesky curves, nor any insulation (which I really didn't foresee needing), I was able to use gusseted steel angle and corner brackets to join the rigid box together, without traditional roofing spars or face-frame. I used stainless 1/4" carriage bolts, fender washers, and stainless acorn/nylock nuts, with PL adhesive sealing all bolt holes, and liberally-applied to every interface (then again to every interior/exterior seam); I probably used 10 or more tubes of PL, and 4-6 more for interior door & window framing, and exterior trim later on, in conjunction with Spax or Tek screws (sized as to not penetrate completely thru all the plies, with more PL on the threads).

**By using steel bracketry & oversized hardware (as compared to the usual staples, brads & nails, and std. woodscrews), I was able to apply stronger clamping forces to hold everything together, with no fear of fastener pull-out or racking. By doubling or tripling the amount of adhesive/sealant used, I hoped to make the structure even more impregnable.

***Only in making the two-part floor was a different joinery method used. A 4x8 birch plywood sheet was to have been the floor at first, attached to the frame with eight 3/8" carriage bolts, with a bead of PL in-between, but I felt that it needed an overlay to cover the bolt-heads, so I added 1/4" luan on top. I chose to completely bond them together, so I poured 1/2 gallon of Titebond2 on the birch plywood surface, and used a pressure roller to squeeze out air between it and the luan plywood, before using 38 small Tek screws around the perimeter (thru both sheets, and into the tubular steel frame).

****Also, I used a different sealant around my windows...OSI Quad...which is more flexible than PL, ensuring that the window had freedom to move if thermal expansion variations occurred (though PL and bolts were employed for the window framing inside). So far, after nearly 6 years, the window sealant remains flexible and intact.

*****In summation, after several years of use, I can say that the adhesives, sealants, and hardware have all worked as planned, and even the coatings used (polyurethane and acrylic enamel and of course, the "mix"...all doubled-up, too) have exceeded my expectations as for durability. I would build another just the same way, but with some changes in design (taller, wider, longer, insulated). But bolts, brackets, PL all form the basis of a solid TTT build, IMHO.

[redbicycle]

I have used OSI on my trailer a few times. I was going to use it around my windows also but I decided to go with another product called: big stretch. My buddy that is building his house used it for his windows after tons of research. It looks like a great product.


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[GTS225]

Ya know, this brings to mind several questions on my part. Many of you have used abbreviations that I'm not familiar with, and even working on it used a term (the mix), in his last paragraph above, that I have no idea what he's talking about.
Might there be a comprehensive list somewhere, (maybe even a sticky), that details these abbreviations and other methods, both mechanical and chemical, that a greenhorn can peruse?

Roger

[Wolfgang92025]

Only one comment to add.
Use stainless screws and nails or brads,
Sooner or later, the hardware will get wet and iron/steel will start to rust.
Learned that lesson the hard way.

[swoody126]

Tom, the total TB III boat is just going on 2 years old butt she is still holding in there

she was delivered to the museum livery just before that little wind storm(Harvey) hit and she weathered that storm

8 boats(4 in 2017 and 6 in 2018) were built using it for framing and those have been in the hands of teen agers since w/ no known issues reported

Wolfgang, we have started using screws like these

https://www.screw-products.com/bronze-s ... erior-use/

w/ our youth boatbuilding camps w/ no reported issues

their advertisements read well and we decided to try them

so far even in saltwater use we've had no reported issues

both of you please understand we turned these projects over to kids so their care and treatment is not expected to be on the level of an adult who invested hundreds of hours and huge chunks of hard earned change creating environments they expect to sleep dry in for many years ;-)