Axle/wheel re-alignment question

[philpom]

As with all things there is an evolution at play. While I am happy with our camper for "normal" tow and camp functionality we recently bought a Wrangler. This has me thinking that some more remote camping will be in the works. For this I'll want larger tires and more stability, I want to move the wheels out from under the cabin so I can get some tires on the camper that are significantly larger than the 13" tires it has.

My initial thoughts:

Build is on a 4' wide Harbor Freight trailer kit
Camper is 5" wide (a little more)
13" wheels currently sit under the camper (no wheel wells)
No clearance to increase the tire size

I was thinking of welding or bolting heavy gauge square tube steel or angle under the existing frame at the current leaf spring mount points (or probably moving it back about 3-5 inches to accommodate door clearance) and moving the leaf springs out to the ends. This would mean each end of the steel would extend about 10" outside of the existing chassis. This would allow me to mount say 17" wheels with 30" tires and add a fender outside of the cabin.

Glaring concerns with this plan? What gauge steel should I use for the ~10" overhang to avoid bending? Suggestions?

The wrangler has 35" tires on it so I know we'll never get tires that large on there but I would like to put some on there that will be robust and add some additional clearance for some mild trails/patures/hills... ya know, back country or overlanding.

Last but not least, any good sources for the new axle I'm going to need so I can match the new width?

Thanks!

[Pmullen503]

Is getting a new trailer and moving the body to it an option? You could do what you want with it then.

[kd8cgo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sucLm4sv4WA

That video is an example on the light 1,195lb. HF frame. Pretty easily done, I like this guy's idea of putting in a "backbone" from hitch to tail, easy way to add rigidity and strength to these trailers, especially as he mentions, for a rear recovery situation. Pushing the width out can be a downside on the trails too, but it's a compromise for tires usually. If you want to use a standard trailer axle, just make a rectangular box frame that goes from this new backbone out towards the sides - extending out to the width you want for your new spring perch dimension. You could easily use square tube, angle iron, c-channel, or a combination thereof. The size of the rectangle box shaped sub-frame would basically be dictated by the distance of the spring centers you're using on a standard leaf sprung axle and the width of your spring perches on the new axle. The factory "angle iron" that join the front and rear half segments of the trailer should probably be replaced/upgraded/lengthened like shown in that video to distribute the load more effectively, taking load off the original side beams. You'd want a nice long angle iron (or alternatively, outboard mounted box section, c-channel, etc) here to share the load and make a better longitudinal beam structure along each side of the original trailer. The new, bottom mounted rectangular sub frame adds both height and width, and you can also use different height spring hangars for added height as well. When building the sub frame you can also chose taller profile steel separately or the left and right beam sections that the spring hangers mount to for additional height - for instance you can use 2" cross member and "backbone" section sizes, and size up to a 3" or 4" tall channel, angle, square or rectangle box section for your outside beams, adding even more height. Add gussets or diagonal corner bracing to the sub frame in the four corners to take up racking/parallelogram loads, for instance from one wheel getting stuck relative to the other on the trail. This type of design modification still uses the original trailer to carry some load and would probably be quite OK for trails that aren't getting into the gnarly rock crawling category and as long as you keep your loaded weight reasonable.

Height is double edged like width, your trailer will most likely already have more ground clearance than the Jeep as-is or with relative minor changes, and going up also raises the center of gravity, something else to keep in mind.

[twisted lines]

Sounds like # 2 Is in your future

[philpom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sucLm4sv4WA

That video is an example on the light 1,195lb. HF frame. Pretty easily done, I like this guy's idea of putting in a "backbone" from hitch to tail, easy way to add rigidity and strength to these trailers, especially as he mentions, for a rear recovery situation. Pushing the width out can be a downside on the trails too, but it's a compromise for tires usually. If you want to use a standard trailer axle, just make a rectangular box frame that goes from this new backbone out towards the sides - extending out to the width you want for your new spring perch dimension. You could easily use square tube, angle iron, c-channel, or a combination thereof. The size of the rectangle box shaped sub-frame would basically be dictated by the distance of the spring centers you're using on a standard leaf sprung axle and the width of your spring perches on the new axle. The factory "angle iron" that join the front and rear half segments of the trailer should probably be replaced/upgraded/lengthened like shown in that video to distribute the load more effectively, taking load off the original side beams. You'd want a nice long angle iron (or alternatively, outboard mounted box section, c-channel, etc) here to share the load and make a better longitudinal beam structure along each side of the original trailer. The new, bottom mounted rectangular sub frame adds both height and width, and you can also use different height spring hangars for added height as well. When building the sub frame you can also chose taller profile steel separately or the left and right beam sections that the spring hangers mount to for additional height - for instance you can use 2" cross member and "backbone" section sizes, and size up to a 3" or 4" tall channel, angle, square or rectangle box section for your outside beams, adding even more height. Add gussets or diagonal corner bracing to the sub frame in the four corners to take up racking/parallelogram loads, for instance from one wheel getting stuck relative to the other on the trail. This type of design modification still uses the original trailer to carry some load and would probably be quite OK for trails that aren't getting into the gnarly rock crawling category and as long as you keep your loaded weight reasonable.

Height is double edged like width, your trailer will most likely already have more ground clearance than the Jeep as-is or with relative minor changes, and going up also raises the center of gravity, something else to keep in mind.

Excellent info, I have been wanting to throw a center beam on the tongue anyways to beef it up so this fits the plan perfectly. Just bring it all the way back and while I'm at it add a receiver to the rear. Then I can box out each side for the new spring mounts. I have a dump trailer that uses heavy angle at the mount points so I'll figure out what that is and use the same, it's a pretty sturdy trailer. Downside is this will push me well over my current 840lb dry weight, oh well!

Raising the camper will raise the center of gravity but pushing the wheels out will compensate. By pushing the wheels back some I'll also get the benefit of using all the different receiver gadgets like bike racks, cargo platforms etc.

[philpom]

Is getting a new trailer and moving the body to it an option? You could do what you want with it then.

LOL - yes, this is an option but that just sounds like a royal pain in the #$^@$ compared to sending it to a welding shop for a few days. I'm not sure I have recovered from building it yet and I have so many other things I need to get done.

Food for thought though, a little more planning would make that kind of thing a piece of cake.

[philpom]

Sounds like # 2 Is in your future

I'm not gonna say never because.... ya know.... but; I don't see it any time in the near future! On the other hand, #1 gives you so many new ideas, sometimes it's tempting. Almost makes we wanna tell new builders to kind of build up a quick functional camper before they go full Monty on the build. They would learn a ton. Unless like so many of the folks here and you are already a pro, I'm just a really handy guy with a big imagination. Pretty sure when I was 4 I thought I could build a rocket out of cement truck parts

[DJ Davis]

Sounds like # 2 Is in your future

I'm not gonna say never because.... ya know.... but; I don't see it any time in the near future! On the other hand, #1 gives you so many new ideas, sometimes it's tempting. Almost makes we wanna tell new builders to kind of build up a quick functional camper before they go full Monty on the build. They would learn a ton. Unless like so many of the folks here and you are already a pro, I'm just a really handy guy with a big imagination. Pretty sure when I was 4 I thought I could build a rocket out of cement truck parts

"Scavenger 1"...is that you...?

[DJ Davis]

Check out my axle redo in this link, Step 17:

https://www.instructables.com/Home-buil ... op-Camper/

Let me know if you need more details.

[Modstock]

Bigger tires and lift on a teardrop isn't necessary. Most places you'll take it will be a mostly smooth gravel road .
Trailers on a 4wd trail is kinda frowned upon. (Hardcore-ish trails)
My old teardrop I upgraded to 5.13/12" tires from the 4.88's. They did well, even aired em down for longer trips.
SW. Idaho runs 13's on his foamy and takes that thing everywhere.
My cargo conversion trailer has been all over utah with stock tires.



Sent from my SM-A115AP using Tapatalk

[twisted lines]

Sounds like # 2 Is in your future

I'm not gonna say never because.... ya know.... but; I don't see it any time in the near future! On the other hand, #1 gives you so many new ideas, sometimes it's tempting. Almost makes we wanna tell new builders to kind of build up a quick functional camper before they go full Monty on the build. They would learn a ton. Unless like so many of the folks here and you are already a pro, I'm just a really handy guy with a big imagination. Pretty sure when I was 4 I thought I could build a rocket out of cement truck parts

Never thought I would be building a Foamie, started, before finishing #1
Her thoughts about #2
My Pro experience Comes from 30 year's of experimenting (Playing) with very wealthy peoples money,
Wish they still supported me.

[ghcoe]

After my first trip out with the original 12" wheels I switched to 13" wheels. It was just a temporary change till I could move up to a larger axle and go to 15" wheels. 4 years later I finally swapped to 15" wheels. Not because I needed to, but because I finally bent the axle. Figured it was time to move to 15" wheels at the same time since it did not cost any more for the 5 lug hub over the 4 lug hub.

You can watch other videos on the channel to see what I put those 13" wheels though. This one gives a pretty good example. If you are not planning anything worse than this then I wouldn't bother changing wheels.



For a offroad/overlanding trailer you really want the wheels to be the same width as the tow vehicles wheels. Makes pulling through rougher roads/trails so much easier and safer.

Yes, you will want to add a 2"x2" steel tube down the center of the Harbor Freight trailer. The tongue is the weak link in the trailers, the welds will fail, that is why you don't weld HF trailers together. Welding makes the metal brittle. The square tube will relieve the up/down strain and pulling forces from the tongue.

Good luck! George.

[joefriday122]

Bigger tires and lift on a teardrop isn't necessary. Most places you'll take it will be a mostly smooth gravel road .
Trailers on a 4wd trail is kinda frowned upon. (Hardcore-ish trails)
My old teardrop I upgraded to 5.13/12" tires from the 4.88's. They did well, even aired em down for longer trips.
SW. Idaho runs 13's on his foamy and takes that thing everywhere.
My cargo conversion trailer has been all over utah with stock tires.



Sent from my SM-A115AP using Tapatalk

I am a raw newby looking to build a TD or SD. Your info is very valuable to me. If I understand what you are saying, the use of standard 12" tires on a trailer is not a problem so long as the weight is kept under control -- correct? What about driving on the interstate at 70mph?

I don't expect to ever do any off-roading and look for nothing rougher than a gravel or dirt forest service road. I drive a Tacoma 4x4 SR5. I'm thinking about a Northern Tool 5x8 trailer to build the lightest weight basic camper I can; a sleeping platform with room for dry storage (a couple of coolers and maybe the battery for a solar setup.)

thanks for sharing.

[philpom]

Bigger tires and lift on a teardrop isn't necessary. Most places you'll take it will be a mostly smooth gravel road .
Trailers on a 4wd trail is kinda frowned upon. (Hardcore-ish trails)
My old teardrop I upgraded to 5.13/12" tires from the 4.88's. They did well, even aired em down for longer trips.
SW. Idaho runs 13's on his foamy and takes that thing everywhere.
My cargo conversion trailer has been all over utah with stock tires.



Sent from my SM-A115AP using Tapatalk

I am a raw newby looking to build a TD or SD. Your info is very valuable to me. If I understand what you are saying, the use of standard 12" tires on a trailer is not a problem so long as the weight is kept under control -- correct? What about driving on the interstate at 70mph?

I don't expect to ever do any off-roading and look for nothing rougher than a gravel or dirt forest service road. I drive a Tacoma 4x4 SR5. I'm thinking about a Northern Tool 5x8 trailer to build the lightest weight basic camper I can; a sleeping platform with room for dry storage (a couple of coolers and maybe the battery for a solar setup.)

thanks for sharing.

I have 13" tires but pull it down the freeway at 70+ mph with no issues for 100's of miles at a time. Just make sure you have them aired up and total weight is within range for your tire.

[ghcoe]

You will find that most utility trailers will come with 12" tires/wheels. Most utility trailer manufactures don't recommend towing over 45mph. Most people think it is because the tires are not rated to go that fast. Mostly it is for litigation, kind of like the recommended tow speed of a U-hual you see clearly marked to not go over 55mph on the fender, going down the highway at 75mph.

The HF trailers and a local built 5'x8' utility trailer I have worked with have 12" tires and the tires on both are rated at 86mph. I have pulled both my foamies at 75mph for extended times with the 12" tires.