Cutting out doors/hatch--need advice...!

[madjack]

madjack wrote

...we had built our doors with a 1/4 gap using the same considerations that you did...when we did the dry fit we found that we needed 5/16 to keep from having clearance problems.

Jack, did you use the 5/16" gap measurement all the way around or just make the doors 5/16" smaller total ? Thanks

...that was a 5/16th(total) all the way around...since we started out with a 1/4" gap, we took 1/8th of the bottom and one side and sanded of the corner radius to match back up...this gave us a 5/16th gap all around..
madjack

p.s....let me say one more thing...dryfitdryfitdryfitdryfitdryfit and then dry fit again until you are absolutely sure of the fit before doing anything permanent

[madjack]

Jim, we made a template and used a guide bushing and appropriate bit in a plunge router....into that 5/16th gap are 2 pieces of 1/16th trim, leaving a 3/16th gap when finished...our doors are not trimmed/sealed with "T" molding in the "standard" manner but rather there is an internal seal...look under my www button for detailed pics....this technique is used (internal seal) by Steve Fredericks and Camp-Inn among others...it is trickier to do but looks very slick.....
madjack

[kayakrguy]

Hi folks,

Back from reunion. 700+ miles in just over 30 hours...ugh.

I'm trying to wrap my mind around what I have read...and will see if I have it right. If anything is bass ackward, let me know.

First, I think the limits of my skill, experience, equipment (don't have router, do't have table saw, don't have any tools for this except jig, rotary and
some clamps etc to improvise a guide with some wood etc) I think this makes sense:

1)Craigs idea of the guide plus my rotary saw to cut the straight edge of doors seems best way to go. I get far less tear out with the rotary saw.
Then use the jig to finish the corners.

2) MJ's point about the 5/16 inch gap still is a bit 'iffy' in my mind. I did look at his door pics but, not being sure of what I am looking at, I am not sure how you 'get there from here' e.g. fit, trim and weatherproof door after cutting it out.

3) would like to hear more about 2 from anyone who willing to share experience.

4) I am going to HD/L's to look at T molding today, just to get a sense of wht the stuff is, how it might be used with weather stripping etc...if there are other things I should look at please say so.

5) I am curious about how the various trims I see on doors and openings are srewed into the EDGES of the plywood. I have NEVER seen a screw into a plywood edge hold??? What secret process is used here?

I will do some practice cutting today with guides and rotary saw until I think I can get decent cut outs for the doors...

Thanks again, everybody.

By the way, upstate central New York is beautiful (finer lakes) been a long time since we last saw them...still some pretty impressive farms up there....but lots of poverty too...

Jim

[madjack]

Jim, first let me say, that what works for me or the next guy may may not be the best way for you...now for clarification...

...3/4" ply on the work bench, profile cutout, door cutout, no aluminum on anything...5/16 gap all the way around door and door jamb

...now door skinned and trimmed with 1/4X3/4 aluminum CHANEL (we use no T molding...anywhere on doors)..next comes the door jamb...we used 2 pieces of 1/4X1" angle, laid on top of one another to form a 1/4X1.25" "Z"

...the outer leg of the Z captures the outer edge of the door jamb and the inner leg of the Z has a trimseal on it to act as the weatherseal. The back side of the door seals against this trimseal

....what we end up with for a gap is as follows...started with 5/16 gap, with the 1 piece of trim on the door and two on the door jamb, that totals 3/16 leaving 1/8th gap all the way around the finished product

...this is a more complicated process that using "T" molding but it gives a more "manufactured" look, which is what we were looking for...
madjack

[kayakrguy]

MJ and all,

Jack, thanks for your last note...helped to clear much of the fuzz from my head...went back to your pics and some things dropped into place then. Your description helped me 'get' the 5/16 and trim stuff together--thank you for that!

I am still fuzzy about what you mean by two 1/4 X 1 'on top of one another' to form a 'Z'. Looked at pics again but couldn't link what you said to what I was looking at. The jamb looked like c chanel to me? If you have time to pull more fuzz out of my head on this point I would be grateful

I do think what you do with the doors is a very elegant solution, which seems simple in its functional effectiveness and it looks great. I am not sure why you say it is more complicated than the T molding construction but I will take your word on that <G>

Thanks again,

Jim

[madjack]

Jim...take 2 pieces of angle and turn one over and put them together...you now have a "Z"...take a close look at this pic...one leg wraps the outside edge of the door jamb and the other leg sticks into the inside....the inside leg acts as the door stop and has trim seal onit for the door to seal against....
madjack

the "A" sample profile is what we used on the inside leg for a seal...

[kayakrguy]

Jack and everyone...

Thank you again....finally, the pin dropped. That's a very clever design! Straightforward, too, after the pin drops <g>

What puzzles me is that on plywood doors, the trim pieces on the jamb and doors, however done. are screwed into the EDGES of the plywood. I have never seen a screw into the edge of plywood hold. Is there some secret plywood edge screw I don't know about? <g>

Thanks again,

Jim

[madjack]

...that is why you use good ply...not chi-ply ...we used a #6x1" "button" head SS screw with a healthy bead of auto windsheild sealant between all surfaces...it shouldn't go anywhere...screw failure in ply edge is function of the screw splitting out the ply...predrill your holes for a better response and yes they actually make a specific screw but in all my years of building stuff outta ply I have never used or seen 'em...predrill, glue and then screw is just the ticket...
madjack

[kayakrguy]

Jack,

Now I understand why you spend so much time anealing aloomanum <g>

Thanks again,

Jim