lenghtening HF axle

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lenghtening HF axle

Postby GeorgeT » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:26 pm

I saw where a fellow cut a HF trailer in half longways including the axle and welded pieces in to widen it. Looked like that worked okay. What I wanted to do was to just lenghthen the axle about 5 inches which would make the tires stick out 2 1/2 inches farther from the frame on each side allowing me to make a 52 inch interior width cabin. My wife and I tried out this width for sleeping and found it much better than the standard 46 or 47 inch interior widths. The cabin floor made out of 3/4 inch ply would overlap the frame on each side about 2 1/2 inches including the 1/2 inch thick walls. What I am a bit anxious about is the 2 1/2 inch extension of the axle on each side out past where the axle connects to the springs. Is this too much? Should this portion of the axle be reinforced or would this be okay and not present any future problems with the axle bending out past the leaf springs or anywhere else? Anyone ever try this? Thanks for any comment? :?
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Postby angib » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:24 am

George,

Scary idea! It was Arne who widened his HF trailer, but by widening the frame and axle together. What you are proposing is quite different. According to my estimate (will someone PLEASE make a decent measurement of a HF trailer?) the wheels on a HF overhang the spring by 4.5" (spring centerline to wheel centerline).

If you increase that by 2.5", you will be increasing the bending load on the axle by 55%. So IN THEORY you would be safe if you downrated a 1800lb HF to 1150lb, which would leave the bending load the same.

Someone with a HF can also chip in here with info about whether the HF has some sort of spring seat (doesn't look like it in photos) - you would have to move that too.

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Postby Arne » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:37 am

I was going to say the same thing. There is a spring pad on the axle. This could be duplicated and welded on to an extended axle.

The bending load might be ok, if the trailer was light enough. An 1,800 pound trailer with a 700 pound box might be doable, but it is uncharted waters.

Another thought is to do it (cut it in the middle) and weld an additonal piece of 2" angle iron (1/4 thick wall) over the entire length of the original axle....

In short, given some thought (and strengthing), it is probably doable, but not particularly recommended...... but, with a light load..... could be done.
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Postby Joseph » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:52 am

Ross Wade tried it - in short, he now has a new axle. Maybe he'll relate the details of his experience or you can contact him privately, but I'll offer one word of advice: "Don't!"

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Postby Arne » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:52 am

One thing, aside from strength of the axle, is stability. The further the wheel is placed fromt the spring mount, the more unstable the trailer will become. ie, more likely to sway, but everything is a trade-off.
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Thanks

Postby GeorgeT » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:01 pm

Well, that's pretty much what I suspected. Seemed too easy of a fix anyway. I don't think I will risk it. Back to the drawing board. Thanks for your advice, I believe you are right. :?
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Postby angib » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:28 pm

Thinking about it some more, it did occur to me that we might be being a bit pessimistic. If you look at all the bigger, wider wheels people have fitted to the HF trailer - and I'm assuming they're offset to clear the trailer side walls - they must be producing about a similar amount of overhang.

The wider wheels will certainly be able to produce bigger bending loads on the axle, if they get a bump towards the outside of the tyre. So if those wide wheels haven't produced any axle bends or breaks, that would suggest that this isn't really a problem.

However this does not mean that I can see a way to widen the axle that is as strong as the orginal.

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Yeah, that was in my thoughts too

Postby GeorgeT » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:51 pm

I had wondered about those that had the larger and wider wheels too. Just don't know if those folks are using a HF trailer axle rather one they bought to build a trailer with or maybe an already built trailer with a beefier axle. But in effect it seems it would be the same as lengthening an axle. I had contemplated welding a brace all they way down the axle for strengthening but am a bit worried about the stability issue that might arise as was mentioned in an above post. I believe the 1175 lb HF trailer comes with a U channel axle that is 3/16 thick whereas the 1800 lb trailer has a round axle that I don't know the diameter of nor the thickness of the metal. I can tell from observation that it looks somewhat thicker than the 1175 lb axle. Probably would be better to try this with the 1800 lb axle, if one was to go this route.
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Postby GeorgeT » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:52 pm

Joseph wrote:Ross Wade tried it - in short, he now has a new axle. Maybe he'll relate the details of his experience or you can contact him privately, but I'll offer one word of advice: "Don't!"

Joseph


Was wondering how far out past the saddle did he extend his axle?
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Postby Arne » Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:15 pm

Sorry, I sent a prvate message... and I can't spell.....

My answer was based on a light tear on an 1,800 pound trailer....
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decided not to bother

Postby GeorgeT » Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:56 am

I decided not to bother with lengthening the axle. Just going to use the 1175 # HF trailer as is and put a 5 x 8 box on top with wheel wells inside. My wife and I discovered that if you lay your head at the tongue end of the trailer sleeping on a foam mattress on the floor your hands are just a tad short of the wheel wells. This allows for plenty of turnover room for the upper torso including the hips while the bottom torso (from the crotch on down) lies between the wells. Layed it out on the floor and tried it. Seems like it will work and wife okay with it. She has done a bit of upholstery work in her day and is going to make a couple of mattresses that will fit in the space allowing for the wheel wells. I will extend the wheel wells to the ceiling and make storage out of it and it will serve as side wall stiffeners. My design is dual rear entry doors similar to that of an enclosed cargo trailer. This is so that I can use it as a cargo trailer when not using it for camping as all the camping stuff will be removable.
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Postby angib » Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:16 am

George,

Sounds really interesting. Post them plans and pictures soon.

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Postby David Grason » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:05 pm

I'm going to throw a little bit of a wrench in the works here, too because I don't think anyone has mentioned this.

I ordered a Dexter axle for my Comet project. I've built 8 trailers before - all of them for my work. Anytime I've ever ordered an axle, when I received it, I noticed that they ALL have a bend in them that is supposed to straighten out under a load. When the trailer is sitting on its wheels with no load, the axle will have a slight arch upward and the tires will be slightly tucked in. If you decide to lengthen an axle, you would have to cut the axle in the center and weld on an over size piece of tubing that would slip over the original axle tubing peices. This would now screw up the axle's ability to bend under a load and heaven knows what the toe in/toe out would be under your "new" axle.

It's something to think about. If you need a wider axle, it would probably be a lot better just to order a custom made axle to your new dimensions and use your old axle for something else.
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