Soldering wire questions....

[David Grason]

I don't about about all of ya'll, but I just hate to crimp wires together and expect them to last for a long time. I had made up my mind that, in the interest of doing a top quality job, I was going to solder every connection on my teardrop's wiring. Now, I have to say that I don't solder wire for a living, but hell, it aint rocket science. When I raced RC cars, years ago, I soldered stuff all the time. And I got good at it.

So I got my old soldering iron out and I couldn't get it to work. I learned with my RC cars, to keep a wet sponge close by to keep the tip clean but it didn't seem to matter. This iron had seen better days. Finally, I threw it in the trash and went over to Radio Shack to get a new iron - a 25 watt. I never could get the wire to tin. The wire, BTW, is 14 guage automotive wire from NAPA and the solder is general purpose, lead free, flux core stuff from Radio Shack. I also have some of the same type of solder from Home Depot.

My new iron worked for a little while but it didn't seem like it was putting out enough heat to even tin the end of the iron itself. So I took it back and wanted to trade it for an iron with a higher wattage but they didn't have any. So I got my money back and went to the Home Depot. I bought a Weller pistol that you have to hold the trigger. The trigger has 2 positions - one for 100 watts and the other for 140 watts. But each time a lay the thing down, the tip cools down and then I have to wait for it to heat up again for the next joint. But even at this, I never got one single solitary wire to tin. In fact, I could barely get the solder to melt on the tip of the gun. So after a couple of days of trying to make it work, back to Home Depot it went.

I have to admit that I've always preferred irons to soldering guns because the iron can sit there and cook while you get set up for your next joint. Then it's always hot and ready to go. But Home Depot didn't have any that I liked, meaning they didn't look any better than the ones that Radio Shack had. So I went to Lowe's.

Lowe's had a nice looking Weller iron that was rated at 75 watts. I brought it home and plugged it up. Within just a little while, the tip warmed up and tinned like a champ. But I couldn't get the wire to tin. So I called my brother in law and talked about it with him. He suggested that there wasn't enough flux in the flux core these days. Everything's getting cheaper and cheaper. That made sense to me so I went back Radio Shack to get a little container of flux and they didn't have any. They were out. So were 2 other Radio Shacks. Finally I found some at Home Depot.

The flux was the final missing element. This afternonn, after a week of spinning my wheels and thinking maybe I should just crimp everything, I did some of the most beautiful soldering work that I've done in many years. I got about half way through with my wiring harness and the iron quit working. The indicator light was still on, I cleaned the tip, but no go. And I made sure that the tip was in tight and the set screw was tigtened down. I've been through all of that. It just decided that it had had enough soldering.

So my questions are thus:

Have things changed so much in the last few years? I mean, wire that doesn't tin without flux, soldering irons that don't heat, soldering irons that go out within an hour of starting, what the heck is all this about? Where can I find a soldering iron that will go the distance? And where can I find a good high quality wire that was actually made to be soldered?

Or have I forgotten everything that I ever learned about soldering?

[purplepickup]

You had some bad luck there David.

I just wanted to remind anyone soldering wiring that they should only use rosin core solder or rosin flux. There are two kinds of flux and you don't want to ever use acid core solder or acid flux on electrical connections.

[Q]

The main problem is lead free solder. Tin and zink just doesn't cut it. I found and old stock of lead rich rosin core solder and bought several spools. Wouldn't sell it for $100.00.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with a properly crimped connectors. If you look at aircraft wiring you won't see soldered connections, only crimped.

Q

[doug hodder]

Dave, something that I am doing, is after soldering the wiring, I use heat shrink rather than electrical tape. I don't want to have to go in and try to fish out any wiring after it is all said and done, 1 year down the road. What about silver solder?????Doug Hodder

[Nitetimes]

I found that the best thing for soldering 14ga and up wire is one of the miniature butane or propane torches that make the super hot little blue flame. Works great, super fast, no waiting to heat up.

[David Grason]

Actually, I have to say that for a while, I was getting the results I was looking for right up until the new iron fizzled. I gotta tell ya, I'm just disgusted with the quality of the solder, the irons or something that they're selling to us. Hell, for the price we pay, we should get some good stuff. And that's really the problem here. If everything I bought was as good a quality as it was 10 years ago, I don't think I would have had to give it a 2nd thought.

Q, as far as crimping goes, I haven't seen any really good crimping tools for sale around here in a long time. That's why I was shying away from crimping. The key word is "properly" crimped. Those aircraft guys get all the good tools. I wonder where they get an aircraft quality crimping tool and the "good" connectors?

I've got a TV repair buddy that makes his living with a soldering iron. I'm going to ask him where to get a good one. I'd be willing to bet that a good iron will be the end of my problems.

Doug, I'm with you in that I'm using heat shrink for all the connections. You and I think alike because of the boat building. Because of the humidity in a marine environment, we want to make darn sure that wiring is top notch.

Oh well, I'm just blowing off some steam. If anyone has any ideas on where to find "PRO" quality irons, solder or good crimping tools, let me know. .......and I'm not talking Home Depot, Lowe's or Radio Shack.

Nite Time, you're not going to believe this but I tried the butane thing and it worked quite well. I just couldn't get it to light up easily. Sometimes it would light up fine, other times nothing doing.

I'm just a born complainer aint I.

[madjack]

...I have a 25w 12v soldering iron I bought at a truckstop years ago..works fine, a 25w 120vac that I have had for years and still works fine, I also have a butane fired soldering iron(no flame) that I bought at Radio Shack that works really well once it gets heated up...in talking about tape and heat shrink let me add liquid electrical tape...painted around tape or heat shrink you get an absolute waterproof(submersible) connection, it also works really well on those stress relievers at the handle of your power tools that get cracked.
A HINT...if your iron is getting hot and not soldering, try cleaning the tip with a file and then re-tinning the tip(an old NASA trick) also take apart the tip end and clean the internal(mechnical) connections, making sure they are tight when you put them back together again
madjack

[asianflava]

I prefer to crimp rather than solder. The trick is to properly crimp and provide strain relief. I used to install car stereo and alarms a long time ago, you get the feel for how to do it.

I installed an alarm in my wife's old car about 12 years ago. The whole works, remote locks, trunk, and windows (up & down). It still works fine, the problem is now the car doesn't. With almost 285K it is ready to be put out to pasture.

These are the crimpers and strippers that I use. I bought the strippers at a pawn shop for $3 and I found the crimpers in my dad's garage. I remember seeing them when I was a kid. Back then I didn't know what they were. I don't know who's they were originally (my dad didn't do electrical) but they're mine now.

The strippers cut only the insulation and pull it away in one operation. They also don't nick the wire unless you use the wrong hole. The crimpers specify a mil-spec terminal. They ratchet and crimp twice in one operation. They crimp around the barrel of the terminal and once around the insulation. There is a stop so that you don't insert the wire too deep or too shallow into the terminal.

[David Grason]

Asian, DUDE!! that's it! That's what I'll go with. I really LIKE those tools. I'll start looking for them right away. That will really make life easier.

[David Alston]

I wouldn't be using lead free solder for this kind of application. It takes more heat and the heat is hard on the wiring insulation and takes time. For what it's worth, in aircraft work most connections are crimped. The thought seems to be that vibration is more likely to affect soldered connections. I watch guys on discorver channel building choppers with all soldered connections and I have to wonder how it's going to work over time with the thump-thump of a big V twin vibrating all those connections. Just my two cents.

[David Grason]

Actually, I thought that soldering would be the correct way to go BECAUSE I saw the guys on the chopper shows soldering everything. But I didn't even know that airplanes were using crimped connections. I also didn't know that there was a military spec for such a thing and NOW, I've got a new direction to look for future teardrops. I can quickly see that if I can get the aircraft grade tools and connectors, that'll definately be the way to go.

Thanx everyone for the heads up on that stuff.

[kartvines]

Here is what I found on AeroElectric Connection, I have provided the link if anyone cares to read the entire article.

CRIMPING
Now let's get on with attaching your lugs to the wires. All terminal lug connections should both be crimped and soldered: Never accept less. Solder is for electrical connection only. Crimping is for mechanical strength. Some will crimp only (like any high production consumer products and some automotive applications) but experience has shown there is no substitute for following the tried and proven rules:

Rule I - Crimp to keep it from coming loose.

Rule II - Solder well for the juice.

Rule III - If in doubt, go back and repeat Rules I and II.

We will not allow a product to go out of our shop that does not conform to this standard - and we are the largest and fastest growing company in our industry. We will not accept field failures and there is no reason you should either!

These words pay homage to an old saw that has been hanging around for nearly a century, make your joint mechanically secure BEFORE you solder it for electrical security. I have books in my library that illustrate "proper" technique for joining wires used to carry power from pole to pole when the electrification of America was in it's infancy. Solder is not as strong as copper. Some technique that mates two wires so that the joint mechanically as strong as the original wire is called for. Obviously, you cannot simply twist wires together and expect continued electrical integrity . . . bare copper exposed to the weather WILL corrode and degrade the electrical integrity of the joint. Solder ENCAPSULATES the interface of the joint and preserves electrical integrity.

Over the years, elements of this description for "proper" joining of wires have found their way into other disciplines and planted erroneous notions about the properties of copper and solder. The idea that the copper "made it strong" and the solder "makes it connect" is incorrect. I will illustrate in more detail later. . .

http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html

[Anon 1]

Bob Nuckolls the man behind AeroElectric Connection does this for a profit and this should tell you something. There are no hard fast rules for the connection of wires, ect.

I worked for 30+ years for an aerospace firm that furnished ignitions for Pratt Whitney, GE and many other jet engine makers as well as for NASA and it's programs. We sent people to a goverent facility in GA just to train in the art of soldering and crimping.

An example of crimping alone is some of the internal connections in the high speed alternators mounted directly on jet engines. The alternators turn very high RPMs as much as 100k.

There is a place for crimping and a place for soldering and also for both. There is a place for stress relief and wrapping as well as ties. So use what you think will best suit your situation.

The best formula for success is good old fashion workmanship.

[bdosborn]

I had a buddy who used to solder flight hardware for Lockhead Martin. He used an iron like this:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl ... er=372-145
Bruce

[alffink]

There is a problem with soldering connections on a teardrop, if you use too-much solder and alow it to wick up under the insulation of the wire and the the wire is not closely supportted, it will flex with the vibration going down the road and will eventually break at the point where the solder stops under the insulation.

The solder actually defeats the purpose of using stranded wire rather than solid, Felxibility. So if you solder, support not just the connection but the wire just before your solder joint.

Al