Insulation question

[Scooter]

Doggone-it!! Gotta remember to login when I post at work (shame on me).

[Shrug53]

If you are talking about blowing the smoke from the fire, you will end up with a nice cozy coffin.
What you could do is apply the radiant heat technique. This would have several loops of pipe under the floor of the trailer which has hot water flowing through it. You could provide the hot water with a boiler of some sort placed on the fire. That would let the heat radiate in. Again for a small space like a trailer though, a heating pad would work best.

Of course if you are really partial to fire and coals you could always go the old fashioned route and get a bedwarmer!



Another thing you could do is heat up large stones in the fire and thne place them under the tear to let the heat seep upward.

Or, you could always do the college thing like they did with VW's. Just see how many people you can stuff in there! A half dozen college girls stuffed in your trailer is sure to keep you toasty warm!

[Chip]

Schrug,,like I say just a concept,,,,sort of like old vw heaters except ya get heat from fire not exhaust from auto,,, and I would draw in fresh air not smokey air,,

chip

[Dave Nathanson]

Hi Chip,
you mean like a combination of these two Zodi's?
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=124669
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=124671

[Chip]

Yes sir,,sort of a combo ,,except home built out of seamless tubing,,,and sort of portable,,,if Its cold I gonna have a fire,,might as well get some heat off it

chip

[Shrug53]

Perhaps if you were pulling it through a filter. What you could do is have a length of pipe capped off at the fire end so that it would just heat air in the pipe itself.
This has several drawbacks of course like the metal getting too hot, and vaccum too! If the air gets hot enough in the pipe it will start sucking cold air in (right our of your trailer). There is also the problem with keeping the fire going all night.
Heating stones in a wood fire will typically get them up to around 300 degrees. If you arrange these under your trailer just before going to bed it would give you many hours of residual heat. This would let you get your heat from the fire, and be safe as well.

If you were determined to keep your fire going you could also do a pipe loop. Think of an exhuast pipe bent in the shape of a U. Both inlet and exhaust get hooked to the trailer and then you put a pusher fan on one side. This moves air through the tube which warms as it passes over the fire and pumps the air back in. This constant flow of air would also keep the pipe from overheating.

This is a little bit like how a car heater works. In a car the heat is supplied by the hot water and it flows through pipes (heater core), then air is blown over the hot metal tubing where it heats up and returns to the car.

If you want actual hot air rather than a heating pad, you could do what I do in my GrandAm. I had to bypass the heater core because it was leaking (and I can not fix it until we move). What I got was this simple little heater pictured below for about 20 bucks from Pep Boys.



It contains small heating coils and a 2-speed fan which you can run with our without heat and it is directional. It takes the chill off the car nicely and when the windshield fogs up I just flip it up to point it at the glass.

Can't beat that for $20.00!

[Chip]

If you were determined to keep your fire going you could also do a pipe loop. Think of an exhuast pipe bent in the shape of a U. Both inlet and exhaust get hooked to the trailer and then you put a pusher fan on one side. This moves air through the tube which warms as it passes over the fire and pumps the air back in. This constant flow of air would also keep the pipe from overheating.

thats what I was talking about except not connect the supply side to the trailer ,,get fresh air that way

chip

[Dave Nathanson]

Well, some interesting and certainly unexpected ideas here!!!

But in the long term, I expect that insulation is going to work better & be cheaper too. I just hate to hide (or screw up) the inside walls. The guy who built our trailer does a lot nicer work than I do!

So, back to the insulation... What R-Value should I be looking for? Is a foam board type going to be better, or a better idea than soft stuff? What about that foil bubble wrap stiff like this;
http://www.homedepot.com Then search for "insulation" and it's the top one. (Foil) Reflectix 4 ft. x 25 ft. Reflective Insulation
Model BP48025 . Reflective insulation for use in a crawl space, attic, wall, metal buildings, and post and frame structures. Fiber free, environmentally safe, easy to install, and it is lightweight. No protective gear needed to install. Reflects 97% of radiant energy.
Internet/Catalog # 161457
Store SKU# 884247
Price: $37.95/ea

[Shrug53]

Really, before you spend the money and effort on insulation try the little heater pictured above. I think you would be surprised.
You could also do some 'budget' insulation yourself. Put some small hooks along the inside of your trailer and then hang a blanket. Then you can quickly put it up and take it down.

[Dave Nathanson]

Hi Tony,
I'm just concerned that I'll kill my little 10A portable battery & the fan might be loud. Do you let your heater run all night? You know, as they say; "it's always the coldest before dawn".

I have the Coleman Powermate:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 2469766417

[Chip]

Dave,,sorry I got off subject,,,well even if you only warm it up a little bit it willl be a whole bunch better than now,,,,anything that will increase the inside temp to a 45 to 50 or better is a plus,,,,,heck use the heater and buy another deep cell just for the heater,,,you may be able to wire up a thermostat to shut it down when it gets warm enough,,,I guess for around a hundred bucks ya could be in business,,

at least its better than sleeping in a cardboard box,,lol
never mind you already been thar done that,,,,,,,,later

chip

[Spook]

You could underpin the trailer with a plastic for less air flow. The reflective foam works best for say laying on it. Also I've seen 12v electric blankets.

[Shrug53]

That is true, it is a bit noisy. I still think the heating pad would be the best. The pad will use about 50 to 60 wats of power and is thermostat controlled so it will have a duty cycle of about 50%
Given an 8 hour sleep night I think this works out to about 20 amp hours per day. Depending on your battery that should give you a usage time of about 10-12 hours. But I am not sure. I am still trying to learn these calculations!

[twc3]

I tried on of those little electric heaters except I got mine from Harbor Freight . I did not like it. Noisy and it took forever to bring the temp up to comfortable and I am afraid of the Zodi heater. I am sure they work great however they require additional attention to prevent a fire.

I use the 12v Heat Pad and have no problems unless I watch TV . The TV will suck the juice out of the battery in a hurry. I do not use the trailer lights much as I spend most of my time by the campfire and with a flashlight or lantern. The lights are mainly for when I need something out of the trailer or I am headed to bed.

I have teamed together the smallest Deep Cycle Marine battery Wal-Mart offers and the largest Solar Charger that Harbor freight offers.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=41144

With this combination I can maintain my battery and run the heat pad 1 to 2 hours before bed and adjust accordingly during the night [All Night If Needed], and run the lights as needed. The solar charger seems to keep the battery maintained during the day. I give the battery a good charging before each outing as well.

Good Luck with your Decision.

[R Keller]

Dave,

A lot of ideas for you here!

As far as your recent insulation question, the insulation with a foil facing is meant to be placed in an attic, on the attic "floor", with the foil facing up. Then it insulates the interior ceiling from the heat buildup in the attic and also reflects the radiant energy. The reflective surface needs a dead air space above it to work. Not sure if the foil provides any benefit when the attic is cold and you are trying to keep the house warm...

You best bang for the thickness, insulation-wise, is polyisocyanurate rigid foam panel ("polyiso"). I think it usually comes with a foil facing. Not sure if the Home Depot stuff that you've found is the same thing. Johns Manville (http://www.jm.com) is a big manufacturer of polyiso (check Larry Sorenson's Outback page, I think that's what he used on the sides of his). Check your local insulation or roofing supply houses in your area.

Polyiso has an R-value of around 7.2 per inch (though it declines a bit with age), So it would probably be your best bet for not reducing your interior space too much and providing good insulation values.

I used Dow Styrofoam extruded expanded polystyrene (XEPS) ("blueboard"; almost identical to the Owens Corning Foamular ("pink board")) in my trailer (R-value of 5 per inch): 3/4" for the sides and 1.5" for the roof. I used this material even with the lower R-value, because I needed something that was structural. But if you just need insulation, the polyiso is probably the way to go.

Two things for you to check about polyiso: 1) outgassing issues (toxic at all?) and 2) how strong is it? (you don't want something that gets big dents from your thumbs every time you move it around or bang into it.

Maybe you could try to make some ceiling panels out of the polyiso covered in fabric and velcroed to the ceiling and see how that works. Maybe you won't need to do the sides at all.

And check into getting some foam mattresses made. At least 3" of poluyurethane foam mattress is going to keep you a lot warmer than the Thermarests you're using. Save those for tent camping...

Hope this helps.

Rik