AC Install Idea

[asianflava]

I tested my A/C unit today. It cooled down today, it was only 103 it was 108 yesterday (isn't it almost October?). I plugged in the tear and flipped on the air conditioner. I only had it on a few hours to check out how it woked. I got it down to a comfortable 75 inside. Must have been dry outside because I didn't have condensation come out of the drain.

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Roley

Imagine that bottom hinged panel for a second, as its being pushed into operating position its going to dig into the bed, if you try to leave it until the top part is in position, then the bottom of the panel will have to have a gap to allow it to drop into position, how would this then be weatherproofed? Anyone who as ever planed up a door to fit will no what I mean.

And this totally ignores the fact that in transit the unit is going to try and rip the side out of the tear with every bump. Supporting from the roof is no good, first part of bump would throw the unit up, it would then be trying to destroy the roof too, ah then we nee to secure to floor too, then the mattress is in the way and even if you do all this and even if it were tight top and bottom it would still be straining the tears floor and ceiling, eventually it will weaken and start work on the sides.

Its really a none starter.

[Arne]

I thought of a sliding a/c, putting it on the ground with tubing connections, etc. It all boiled down to if it is not hard installed, it is always a hassle. I front mounted mine, with a door that protects it while traveling, and opens up when in use that protects from any rain.... It was a design challenge, but have never regretted doing it... it is there and ready anytime I need it. It protrudes about 10 inches.

[len19070]

First off, I love the idea. Every new idea has a few drawbacks, but I'm sure you haven't started cutting holes yet, so they can be worked out.

Years ago Viking/Starcraft Pop-up's made a model called a "Swinger 6 and a Swinger 8". It was a very similar idea only there's was for a swing out
galley.

http://www.teardrops.us/userfiles/len19070/strcrft.jpg

I've always had the idea of putting a small AC on to drawer glides and just roll it out when needed. There are more drawbacks to my idea than there are yours.

Happy Trails

Len

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Len

The swing out galley works because its got great support all across the base when traveling, its secure in virtually every plane. The idea of having a great weight on a door hinge is not going to work, at least not without a major structural engineering feat and a great increase of weight.

The Draw slides idea is far better, there are even slide outs I have recently seen made with what amounts to little more than beefed up draw slides.

Of course the best, simplist and strongest idea with the least hassle factor is demonstrated by arneriel's set up

[cracker39]

Just throwing out an idea here. This is what I will be doing on my trailer. I'll build in a support frame of 3/4" plywood that will be screwed into a rectangular opening constructed of 1 1/2" thick framing in the rear wall. The upper part of the image below is looking at the rear and is just of the two cross spars and vertical framing that is lap jointed to them. Inside the opening is the outline of the 3/4" plywood frame that will support the AC when it is installed.

The AC will ride inside the camper in an under-bed compartment and be ligted into the frame when camping. It weighs only 40 lbs and won't be too hard to handle. The lower part of the image shows a side view of the support frame. There is a cover that is top-hinged and closed for travel. When the AC is put in place, the cover is raised and rests on the rear of the AC. The bottom of the plytwood support frame is slanted downward to keep water drainage from backing up into the camper. The height of the AC should flow the air over us sleeping, and if it doesn't, a deflector could be added on to flow it upward along the ceiling.

This could work on a TD, mounting it on the front wall or better yet, in the side. I've also seen a slide out design on one of the member photo albums. With a curved wall, more care would have to be taken to fabricate a frame and cover to extend out from the curve. It would mess up the nice curve, but would simplify AC usage. I dont' want to permanently mount the AC because I believe the weight would induce stress and weakening of the framing when traveling. So, I kept my original install design and just made the AC removable. When the AC is put in place, I'd put pieces of foam fubber into the gaps around the sides and top.

If the opening was made with enough clearance top and bottom to slide it in, and the window "lip" on the bottom of the AC unit resting in front of the plywood "floor" (also keeping it from sliding on out), the unit couldn't be lifted out from the outside (i.e. stolen).



This is the framing design showing the AC in position for use

[Paulyboy]

Hi, guys. I'm new to this forum. I've been wanting to build something like this for a few years. This is the first thread I viewed and have a question, and also some observations. What about putting the unit on the tongue of the trailer, with a protective cover for travelling? Observations re the drwaings of the swing away design: An average full sixe car front door weighs between 150 and 200 lbs. yet swings easily on 2 hinges with replaceable bronze bushings. The mounting post just needs to be sturdy. Also, would this design interfere too much with headroom or legroom?

[cracker39]

Hi Len

Of course the best, simplist and strongest idea with the least hassle factor is demonstrated by arneriel's set up

Yep, Arneriel's setup puts the weight of the AC unit on the frame (or tongue), and no stress on the framing of the cabin. The only problem with his setup that I can see is the air flow. Arniel, does it have ductwork inside to send the cool air out above the occupants?

[mikeschn]

Paulyboy,

Welcome to the forum!

If you have a 150# tongue, and then add an a/c on the tongue, you may be overloading your car... at least over the axle, or in the rear of the teardrop your tongue weight is not affected, or is possibly even lighter!

Mike...

[cracker39]

I had presumed (maybe erroneously) that one would take the weight of the AC on the tongue into consideration when building the chassis or relocating the axle if you buy one to get a correct tongue weight. I guess I shouldn't presume. And, what type of vehicle and class of hitch you have matters too. I forget some are using cars with class I hitch, which still is rated for 200 lbs tongue weight. And most truck bumper hitches are only good for 150 lbs. I know, because I bent my bumper down a little towing my boat before getting a draw hitch. I didn't weigh the tongue in time...when I finally did, I found out it puts 250 lbs on the hitch ball. No wonder it bent it some. I now have either a class II or III, forget which, but the II supports 350 lbs on the hitch and the III 500 lbs. I plan to get my boat and trailer weighed soon. I think it will outweigh my camping trailer and I can pull it easily, but accelleration is slow.

[cracker39]

PS. Here is a site that explains hitch classes and other good info for those who aren't sure.

http://www.hitches4less.com/trailer-hitch-classes.html

Interesting enough, I'v heard on this forum about the tongue weight being 10 to 15 percent of the trailer weight. This site says "The trailer tongue load should be kept at 10 percent of the loaded trailer weight for weight-carrying* (deadweight) trailer hitches, and 12 percent for weight-distributing** (equalizing) trailer hitches." I guess it depends on who's opinion you listen to. I'm shooting for the 10%, and will go over that rather than under. I don't expect it to exceed 150 lbs loaded. Personally, IMHO, on a really light TD, I'd go over 10%, but not to exceed 100-120 lbs. I'd want to keep it light enough pick it up and move it by hand if I had to.

I always remember that the farther back the axle is located, the better tracking balance you will get and it will be easier to back up. My dad had a Scotty with a short tongue and the axle too far foward. It was light to handle, but at 65mph it would want to wander from side to side and make the rear of the tow vehicle sway. He said it nearly turned over the first time he had it up to speed. He had to have the axle placed farther back and it tracked ok. My dad is a valuable resource for camper info, and even at 91 (Him not me!!!) I still ask him for advice.

[JetBlder]

Instead of putting it on a door why not put it on a slide when you open the door you slide the air out like a drawer

[Arne]

We sleep head to back, so it is not a problem. I did put a baffle to keep the cold air from just recirculating in the pocket.... We have no cabinets, we find large shelves suit us better....The vcr/dvd is a new install on The Morph project.....

When it came to placing TV and heater, Shirley thought they would be best in the middle.... after thinking about how she hogs the space, I figured it would be a good way to keep her on her own side....javascript:emoticon(':)')
Smile

[Roly Nelson]

Well George, I do appreciate your input, even it was so negative. I love it when I am told that something CAN'T be done, it just reinforces my resolve that, yes, there is a way to make it work, and I will do my damnedest to make it happen. I guess I am one of those people who "has planed up a door to fit, and no what you mean", as I was the official company door hanger for years, when I worked at the trade, and probably have over 500 hung doors under my belt.

You may have misunderstood my hinged panel extension on the door, below the AC unit. If it were hinged to flip outwards, it could lip over the outsides of the tear, and weatherstripping would provide water protection. It would be flipped up first, then inner door panel swung in with the AC unit attached. A radius to match the arc/swing of the door would have to be provided at the latch edge of the unit, no problem.

Then installing a rigid, removable carrier beam, such as an oak 3 x 3 or some such timber, could be rigged near the roof to provide for the up and down movement as well as any fore, aft, and side to side motion . Door jamb members could be made proportionately heavier and the AC unit hung on morticed, ball-bearing hinges. I've used them for supporting 400 lb leaded x-ray room doors, so should find the mere weight of a small AC unit to evince no concern. Furthermore, the top corner of the latch edge could also be secured rigidly to the roof beam, supporting 1/2 of the weight and to provide side to side stability, as in a structural shear panel.

I understand that you feel that some of my ideas are "no good" and I know my suggested solutions seem a little overboard, especially when you consider the proposed X-bracing cables that are tightened with turnbuckles inside of the tear. The cables connect to eye-bolts at the roof and just above the mattress, creating no structural problems for the sidewalls or floor.

So, "straining the tears floor and destroying the ceiling and eventually weakening the sides" may not be entirely accurate. Sorry that you feel that this idea is a "none starter", but difficult and impossible have different meanings. Personally, I wouldn't consider positioning an AC unit this way, as I am so content with my removable AC unit placed in the tongue box when camped, I just happen to think it can be done.

Please take these comments tongue-in-cheek, just as I did yours.

Roly ~~

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Roly

Note I already said it would be possible, here is the direct quote

"The idea of having a great weight on a door hinge is not going to work, at least not without a major structural engineering feat and a great increase of weight."

Lets go through your other points, bottom panel hinged outwards, which ever way it flipped it would be a problem, outside drop down already covered, of course it can be made to work, but is it worth the effort? Internal flip down means a mattress move.

A 3" x3" beam? secured to roof? firstly that would involved massively strengthening the roof, but then if the sides need to be strengthened to support the roof. Also the stresses would not be helped unless this beam is secured to the floor, which would mean moving mattress.

On hinges there would be no problem with a decent set of ordinary hinges, the hinges just transfer the stress to the door Jamb, but this door jamb needs to be strengthened and then anything the Jamb is attached to needs more strength.

On cross bracing wires, you have altered your stance since your first post, but even so its still not a practical idea, 1. winding the turnbuckles time consuming 2. Position of Eye bolts needs strengthening, which then leads to more and more strengthening. 3. Moving Mattress to connect wires? 4. Unkess you tighten each cable really tight there is some give which is going to "work" at the fixing point 5. Even if you do tighten the cables, the stress is going to be continuous at the fixing points.


If these were minor problems I would be the first to assist, the reality is that its impractical and even if it could be engineered the gain isnt worth the extra effort, extra weight, shorter vehicle life.