Aniline dye and epoxy test panels

[_Ryan_]

In my search for the perfect wood and finish for the outside of my woody teardrop I went through a variety of options: birch, oak, veneers. None of them allowed for a beautiful dark finish, even staining, nice grain, water resistance, and thin enough to bend to the curves of the profile. After lurking on some boat building forums I was suprised to come across the name of our very own Doug Hodder and his beautiful finishing work on his handcrafted boats. I talked with Doug (thanks Doug!), and I was pretty much convinced to go the route of Okoume marine plywood and aniline dye under epoxy and varnish.

I luckily found the Okoume plywood in Colorado and decided to test a couple aniline dyes. In my research I wasn't able to find a lot of examples so I thought I could post my results here and maybe help some others who might find themselves in the same situation.

The Okoume marine plywood. The grain sold me but the color is very nice as well. This plywood is 4mm thick and bends well across the grain.


Okoume, sanded to 220 grit.


I used 2 different dyes in different concentrations:

Transfast: Dark Red Mohagany from Woodcraft


J.E. Mosers: Dark Colonial Red Mohagany from Woodworkers Supply


Okoume with no stain, not bad by itself!


Transfast panels. To the right is the recommended concentration which was let sit for a couple minutes then the excess was wiped clean with a dry rag. The left is the same but wiped with a damp rag, this pulls up some of the dye and makes it appear lighter. Do to the nature of aniline dye you can lighten with this method or darken by adding more dye to easily balance the color of large sections.


Same as above but with the J. E. Mosers dye.



First layer of Epoxy, under artificial light.



Transfast


J.E. Mosers


Second coat under natural light. I put the second coat on after about 3 hours. I wasn't too careful about the dust and air bubbles which are apparent in these pictures, I tried to get an angle that would maximize the gloss of the finish.


Transfast


J.E. Mosers


The outcome of these tests were pretty amazing. The combination of Okoume, aniline dye, and epoxy was exactly what I was looking for! After the tests I'm definitely leaning toward the J.E. Mosers dye, somewhere in between the two darkness levels in these tests.

[Oldragbaggers]

I am partial to the Mosers as well. I like the lighter one. Very nice. And doing those tests was a great idea!!

[aggie79]

Very nice! Taking the time to do test samples with the complete finish is good advice for all of us to end up with the look we want. I think your teardrop will be beautiful with the color you selected.

I did similar tests before I settled on the dye for my tongue box. I ended up blending two different dye colors to get the look I want.



Take care,
Tom

[doug hodder]

Ryan...something to consider. Over time regardless of whether or not you use the UV resistant epoxy and an auto clear coat over it...it will fade a bit. You might just want to go a bit darker from the get go. Once you put on the first coat of epoxy, let it cure completely, then do a light sand on it to remove the ply nibs that will be standing up. Also, read up on backdragging the epoxy when you lay it down. It takes out all the orange peel when applied with a roller and will finish up much nicer with less sanding effort. Get the epoxy rollers, don't try the big box cheap foam rollers, It will break apart and get into the epoxy. I really like the aniline dye as you can doctor it up as light or dark as you want and it can be blended with a damp rag if it is too heavy in any one area. Just my experience with it. Doug

[_Ryan_]

I am partial to the Mosers as well. I like the lighter one. Very nice. And doing those tests was a great idea!!

That was the consensus of everyone I have talked to. I'm a color blind (red/green) and occasionally need some guidance in this area!

I always love seeing that tongue box! Great work!

[_Ryan_]

Ryan...something to consider. Over time regardless of whether or not you use the UV resistant epoxy and an auto clear coat over it...it will fade a bit. You might just want to go a bit darker from the get go. Once you put on the first coat of epoxy, let it cure completely, then do a light sand on it to remove the ply nibs that will be standing up. Also, read up on backdragging the epoxy when you lay it down. It takes out all the orange peel when applied with a roller and will finish up much nicer with less sanding effort. Get the epoxy rollers, don't try the big box cheap foam rollers, It will break apart and get into the epoxy. I really like the aniline dye as you can doctor it up as light or dark as you want and it can be blended with a damp rag if it is too heavy in any one area. Just my experience with it. Doug

Hi Doug,

Thanks again for all your suggestions!

I was curious if it would lighten or darken over time. It seems like there the edges of the okoume have darkened a bit being exposed to light so I was a bit unsure of what to expect over time. I think I will take your advice and go a bit darker. I love hove easy it is to work with the dye.

It may not look like it but I used a cut West epoxy roller and did tipped it off. I think I layed it on a bit too thick and worked it too much and that may be why I got some of those air bubbles. Strangely my first attempt on the lower edge of my sidewalls went a bit better. I think it helped to take longer strokes when tipping off the epoxy, plus I had a ton of dust in the shop at this point which is a big no-no. A bit more practice and hopefully I should have it down.

Ryan

[doug hodder]

The first coat always gets bubbles from the ply outgassing. That's why I let it cure completely and do a sand on it. Sometimes, you will still get bubbles after a couple of layers. I monitor it and touch them with a finger to get them to drop. I've found that multiple layers of thinner material lays flatter than fewer thicker ones and works easier. Doug

[KCStudly]

I appreciate this thread and the work that Ryan has done demonstrating his tests. I have seen where Doug has recommended the dyes many times, but never took the time to follow up and see what it is all about. The benefits for large panels, the ability to "tune" the color and fix uneven areas or blotches seems like a "no brainer".

So I started looking for more info and local sources for these dyes. There is plenty to suggest that aniline dyes (or similar synthetics) are suitable for wood and fabrics, among other media.

Which brings me to a potential source and some questions.

Joann's Fabrics has Acid fabric dyes that use vinegar as the carrier for dying fabrics.

Do you think these would be affective on wood if blended with water instead of vinegar? What's the point of the acid when used on fabrics? I assume that the acid would be a bad idea on wood, but that is just my gut talking, based on what I have seen vinegar do to other things (strip chrome, turn bone into rubber, etc.) The price is certainly right.

Anybody have any insight?

Other suggestions on where to look locally?

TIA

[_Ryan_]

I appreciate this thread and the work that Ryan has done demonstrating his tests. I have seen where Doug has recommended the dyes many times, but never took the time to follow up and see what it is all about. The benefits for large panels, the ability to "tune" the color and fix uneven areas or blotches seems like a "no brainer".

So I started looking for more info and local sources for these dyes. There is plenty to suggest that aniline dyes (or similar synthetics) are suitable for wood and fabrics, among other media.

Which brings me to a potential source and some questions.

Joann's Fabrics has Acid fabric dyes that use vinegar as the carrier for dying fabrics.

Do you think these would be affective on wood if blended with water instead of vinegar? What's the point of the acid when used on fabrics? I assume that the acid would be a bad idea on wood, but that is just my gut talking, based on what I have seen vinegar do to other things (strip chrome, turn bone into rubber, etc.) The price is certainly right.

Anybody have any insight?

Other suggestions on where to look locally?

TIA

Hi KC,

I don't know the specifics of the dyes or how they compare with other products unfortunately.

I have only been able to find 2 sources for the powder dye. One form Woodcraft [url]woodcraft.com[/url], and from Woodworkers Supply at http://woodworker.com which manufactures it in their main location just down the road from me in Casper Wyoming.

There is also a premixed dye from General Finishes that may be of some interest. You can find these from woodcraft as well.

Good luck!
Ryan

[rivernstream]

I know I am replying to a very old thread. I was able to find a very complete selection of aniline dyes at our local Rockler store. They had transtint liquid but they also had this powdered which is what I ended up using in a kayak build http://www.rockler.com/homestead-dry-dyes