Painting?

[TwoFeetShorter]

I am needing advice on possibly painting my teardrop. I will be putting the final piece on tomorrow, the hatch, and that means soon I will be tearing it all down again to begin hole patching and sanding. My plan was to coat the entire thing in Monstaliner, which is some pretty awesome stuff.

I called Monstaliner a few days ago and told them about my build, and asked what I needed to do prep-wise to put this on my plywood. Their response was that I just needed to seal the entire thing with an exterior polyurethane before rolling on monstaliner. I have no problem with that, but it got me to thinking. The whole point of me using monstaliner was for the seal it would get, but if I have to do the thing up in clear poly anyway beforehand, what is the point of doing the ML afterwards? It is going to cost me upwards of $300 to go the ML route, and my budget is getting tighter and tighter. I could do poly and paint for 1/3 the cost of ML.

Can I coat this with clear exterior polyurethane and then just put a color coat of paint over top of that? If so, what kind of paint would you recommend? I will be rolling whatever I get on, as spraying is not much of an option for me right now.

Suggestions? Thoughts?

Neil

[desertmoose]

You might glue canvas to the plywood and paint it. That's what we did, and it worked great.
Take a look at my build journal, and search for canvas or "poor mans fiberglass" on this forum. There's lots of posts on it.

Sam

[Kaz]

I had the same financial issues Money got thin. I went and got some high quality sherwin williams oil base primer and the used rustoleum paint. 4 t hin coats with a small 4" roller (best quality I could find). 500 grit between coats. Not an automotive finish but damn close. Not sure how it will weather but I plan on doing a final spray coat and clear coat this winter.

[azgreg]

That looks great Kaz!

[Jdw2717]

I did the same as Kaz. Good oil based primer from Sherwin Williams followed by latex house paint. It has held up great for three years so far but Mine stays in the garage unless it is being used though. If it starts to have issues, I will sand, prime and paint again. I just could not justify the money for fiberglass and or aluminum skin for what is essentially a plywood box. Even if I had to rebuild it, it would only cost me $300 for the wood minus the cabinet doors, countertop, drawers, in floor storage lids and hatch frame that could be reused. Plus, all the parts that I could reuse accounted for about half of the build time. I figured going in if it would last me ten years before a rebuild I would be very pleased. So far it looks like it should make that easy.

[TwoFeetShorter]

Thanks for the thoughts and advice everyone. Don't canvas and glue may be too much for me, regardless that camper is awesome Sam.
I would go your route Kaz but I lucked up and actually found a polyurethane one step rubberized coating that will exactly suit my needs and budget.

[KCStudly]

The reason the "PMF" (poor mans fiberglass, otherwise known as canvas and glue) is highly recommended is that it binds the wood fibers together with fibers running in both directions. Over a bent plywood, the outer fibers will not be prevented from splitting simply by painting over them. It may look good for a while, but with exposure to weather, or even just time in the stressed (bent) state the wood will likely start to split between fibers. This will create openings in the paint for water to intrude, then all bets are off. I had little miniature splits in my front radius ceiling ply even as I was installing it.

With the bedsheets or canvas glued on, the wood fibers are strengthened and are much less likely to split, giving a stable base for paint. One member was able to get used bed sheets free just by asking at his local hospital, or you could try a hotel/motel, or B&B. I got several king size top sheets at a yard sale just by asking. Thrown in with some other items for $5. They were going to throw them out because they didn't think anyone would be interested in someones old bed sheets. Truth be told they were in fine shape, so I don't know why they would have thrown them out.

[TwoFeetShorter]

The reason the "PMF" (poor mans fiberglass, otherwise known as canvas and glue) is highly recommended is that it binds the wood fibers together with fibers running in both directions. Over a bent plywood, the outer fibers will not be prevented from splitting simply by painting over them. It may look good for a while, but with exposure to weather, or even just time in the stressed (bent) state the wood will likely start to split between fibers. This will create openings in the paint for water to intrude, then all bets are off. I had little miniature splits in my front radius ceiling ply even as I was installing it.

With the bedsheets or canvas glued on, the wood fibers are strengthened and are much less likely to split, giving a stable base for paint. One member was able to get used bed sheets free just by asking at his local hospital, or you could try a hotel/motel, or B&B. I got several king size top sheets at a yard sale just by asking. Thrown in with some other items for $5. They were going to throw them out because they didn't think anyone would be interested in someones old bed sheets. Truth be told they were in fine shape, so I don't know why they would have thrown them out.

Ah, that makes sense... But, I have no bends in my plywood. It is an all hard angle camper.

[KCStudly]

Still, if you plan to fill in the joins they are a potential failure point where cracks can begin. 4 or 6 inch wide strips of fabric glued over these joints, or better yet, fabric panels lapping over each other by a couple of inches from facet.

Really the only cost adder is some glue, and that is not much on the grand scheme of success or failure.

Do you plan to store her inside or out?

[TwoFeetShorter]

Still, if you plan to fill in the joins they are a potential failure point where cracks can begin. 4 or 6 inch wide strips of fabric glued over these joints, or better yet, fabric panels lapping over each other by a couple of inches from facet.

Really the only cost adder is some glue, and that is not much on the grand scheme of success or failure.

Do you plan to store her inside or out?

I see your point on the joints and seams. I am hoping that the final rubberized coat I plan on using will take care of any potential cracks before they ever get started.

I will have to store her outside. I plan on building a pool noodle frame that will go on top to help the cover breath. I might try to find a small rv cover for it, as I understand those are made to breath.

My true hope is that this will be in use more than it is stored! I am retired and plan on snow birding as much as possible.

Neil

[noseoil]

Neil, good point made about the cloth & overlapping seams. Over time, the edges & joints will begin to work & open, unless they are wrapped first. I think of it like drywall seams. Unless there's some type of mesh or membrane covering it, cracks will form, water will get in and things will beak down.....

[TwoFeetShorter]

Neil, good point made about the cloth & overlapping seams. Over time, the edges & joints will begin to work & open, unless they are wrapped first. I think of it like drywall seams. Unless there's some type of mesh or membrane covering it, cracks will form, water will get in and things will beak down.....

If I just did the seams with strips of sheets, I wonder could I lay it up with just the polyurethane coats I was planning on putting on already? Would the polyurethane penetrate and "glue" the strips down?

I have done all my hole and crack filling and am in the process of sanding in prep for poly and color coat. I want to make sure this thing lasts a long time, but am on a budget and limited with some things I can do. So now I'm thinking maybe 4" strips of sheets, giving a 2" overlap on either side of the edges/seams. Could I tack it up with my brad nailer then just poly over top?

I appreciate the advice everyone!
Neil

[KCStudly]

First you are going to want to round the edges over so the fabric follows the contour (cutting your fabric strips "on the bias" with the threads criss-crossing diagonally will also help them wrap the corners more easily). You can use a router, hand plane, rasp, Surform grater or sanding block; whatever you have or that the budget allows. The fabric will tend to lift away from a sharp edge.

I would then coat the whole thing with a few coats of thinned poly, scuffing and wiping as per the instructions on the can.

The best way to glue the fabric down would be a good coat of TB2 or 3 PVA wood glue brushed or rolled onto the wood and the back of the fabric. Spread the fabric strips out and get them flat and straight; you can use a plastic card or putty knife to "spread" them down flat (I have a big stack of those fake credit cards that always seem to come with the junk mail... stole the idea from Wobbly Wheels, IIRC). Thumbtacks can be used to help position the strips. Then paint over once cured.

I'm not sure if the poly would be the best thing to use as a glue (it might be too runny and won't have any grab... test it on a scrap and see), but latex paint would work okay using the same method (paint first, then fabric). In fact some of the foamie guys have used Glidden Gripper, which is a high build latex primer, but it does not have the initial grab and takes longer to cure than the glue, so some have had trouble keeping things aligned and flat, at least on bigger sections of canvas.

Unless you were to saturate the strips in the paint in a bucket or zip bag first, I don't think you would get a reliable soak and grab, so better to paste it down than to dab it on. Some of the earlier users of canvas skin soaked whole panels this way, but we have since learned that it is easier and cleaner to just give both sides a good dose with a roller.

Once it is all dry, if you have any bubbles or edges sticking up, you can reactivate the latex (IIRC) or glue (for sure) with a hot iron (use a damp cloth as a buffer). You can even trim the edges if you feel the need.

Finally you can paint the top coat.

[ukewarrior]

Not to pile on, but I too think you should go with a Canvas covering.

If you are careful, you can do this pretty cheaply.

1. Use sheets that you can practically get for free at garage sales or discount stores on clearance. If they are new, remember to wash in hot water to preshrink them.
2. While most of us will use titebond 2/3 for the initial glue down, many folks just use paint. While TB is cheaper than paint per gallon, it is not cheaper than mis-tinted paint.
I am going the canvas route with my build and have picked up all the gallons of $50-$60 super high quality paint at Lowes/Home Depot for $9 a gallon in the mis-tint section.
The only time you will need to buy at retail is for your final coats to get the color you want.
3. This is a time proven method. Anything else you are suggesting is going off on your own with no one else to give you their experiences. That is the reason I'm going with Canvas. It doesn't matter that you have no curves. Joints are joints and plywood skin is plywood skin. Layering the Canvas on will make it indestructible to weather and this method is repairable in the event of a minor denting or accident. The fact you are storing outside is reason enough to go this method.

[noseoil]

Neil, you might try some type of cloth material, a scrap soaked in urethane, just to see how it works. Good point made about the rounding of edges first. A hard corner won't take the cloth & allow it to lay flat, without lifting once your back is turned. A scrap of 2X4 with a rolled edge should tell you all you need to know.

Since you're usually working short-handed, some push-pins or tacks would hold the cloth in place if you decide on a Harbor Freight canvas tarp. I like the idea of a simple cloth covering as it's inexpensive, easy to do & will stand up to the elements very well.