Trying to weld for first time

Anything to do with mechanical, construction etc

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby skinnedknuckles » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:57 am

Bob,
I like how you are thinking with you're decisions about welding equipment. I have been welding for over 30 years with everything from oxy-acetylene, spot, stick ,mig and tig. Once you learn how to do it you will find more and more projects to do. Just get the best equipment that you can afford. I will never forget the first mig machine that I bought, it had a cheap roller mechanism and it would not keep tension between the rollers on the wire and it was very frustrating trying to weld. Classes are helpful but the big thing is practice practice practice and throw some patience in the mix too, it can become very frustrating learning the right technique. Aluminum is tricky to weld, cleanliness is VERY important. One thing to think about , get some cheap long sleeve shirts so your arms are protected. Nothing too thick and heavy, that makes welding a bit more tricky, the more you weld the more you will notice the weight of the torch/gun that you are holding and any kind of heavy clothing. A big reason for a light shirt is when that big weld berry burns thru your sleeve you want that thing to be able to burn back out and not get stuck inside burning a hole in your arm - ouch. The same goes for shoes, tennis shoes are a no no, berries just burn right on in and that hurts. If you have some kind of leather boot that would be better just make sure that the tongue has a flap that attaches the tongue to the side of your boot so berries don't find their way inside. Denim material can be a concern too, if you have any holes where the material is stringy I have found that the little strings act as little burning fuses that can hurt . Don't forget that there may be some good used welders for sale in your area, check around.
Have fun burning wire and melting metal and yes throw some pictures on here both good and bad we maybe able to help you with some tips,
Paul
skinnedknuckles
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 100
Images: 21
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:44 pm
Location: West Bend Wisconsin

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby lrrowe » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:23 pm

skinnedknuckles wrote:Bob,
I like how you are thinking with you're decisions about welding equipment. I have been welding for over 30 years with everything from oxy-acetylene, spot, stick ,mig and tig. Once you learn how to do it you will find more and more projects to do. Just get the best equipment that you can afford. I will never forget the first mig machine that I bought, it had a cheap roller mechanism and it would not keep tension between the rollers on the wire and it was very frustrating trying to weld. Classes are helpful but the big thing is practice practice practice and throw some patience in the mix too, it can become very frustrating learning to Northrn Toolthe right technique. Aluminum is tricky to weld, cleanliness is VERY important. One thing to think about , get some cheap long sleeve shirts so your arms are protected. Nothing too thick and heavy, that makes welding a bit more tricky, the more you weld the more you will notice the weight of the torch/gun that you are holding and any kind of heavy clothing. A big reason for a light shirt is when that big weld berry burns thru your sleeve you want that thing to be able to burn back out and not get stuck inside burning a hole in your arm - ouch. The same goes for shoes, tennis shoes are a no no, berries just burn right on in and that hurts. If you have some kind of leather boot that would be better just make sure that the tongue has a flap that attaches the tongue to the side of your boot so berries don't find their way inside. Denim material can be a concern too, if you have any holes where the material is stringy I have found that the little strings act as little burning fuses that can hurt . Don't forget that there may be some good used welders for sale in your area, check around.
Have fun burning wire and melting metal and yes throw some pictures on here both good and bad we maybe able to help you with some tips,
Paul


Thanks for the tips. I will keep all of them in mind as I venture into this endeavor. I was thinking of heading out to Northern Tool tomorrow with the plan at maybe getting the Hobart. But we are expecting up to 30" of snow here in SW Virginia Friday and Saturday, so I may be preoccupied with getting ready for it. Maybe early next week. I anxious to try my first weld. I have local advice on where to get my supplies such as a gas tank. Next I need to find the scrap/metal dealers.
Bob

First Post on Purchase of Trailer: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=60722
Hot water infloor and radiator heating project:[url]http://www.tnttt.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=54&t=62327[/

Image Image
User avatar
lrrowe
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3285
Images: 439
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:54 am
Location: SW Virigina

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby lrrowe » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:03 pm

I am really still quite indecisive on my purchase of a welder. I have reached a lot of good thoughts from this thread and I appreciate all of them. Although right now I think I will bump up my list price from the $499 Hobart 140 to the Lincoln Easy Weld 140 Amp model at $529. Both are from Northern. My final cost after discount and gift card would be $399 versus $429. While the product specs are similar, I think I will resign myself to go for the perceived better unit, the Lincoln. I reached this final thought after talking today to my retired welder neighbor down the road. So now as I am sure others would say, "get off your butt, stop thinking about it and just go do it". As soon as the roads are a little better, I will head into Roanoke (35 mi) and get it.

Dales133, I thought about what you said about the "Asian" units and I could buy three of their 170 AMP (HF) units to the one Lincoln. But I guess I am going for the long range value and that I am supporting to a degree, a US model (assembled in MX darn it).
Bob

First Post on Purchase of Trailer: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=60722
Hot water infloor and radiator heating project:[url]http://www.tnttt.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=54&t=62327[/

Image Image
User avatar
lrrowe
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3285
Images: 439
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:54 am
Location: SW Virigina
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby justageorgiaguy » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:03 pm

I've been following this thread as I plan to start teaching myself to weld as well. My dad has a Millermatic 135, will that be sufficient to weld .125 and maybe a little thicker square tubing?
James Davidson
Photographer
http://www.jdavidsonphoto.com
User avatar
justageorgiaguy
Teardrop Advisor
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:50 am
Location: Cochran, GA
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby lrrowe » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:11 pm

Obviously I am not the one to give advice given I am the OP. But from what little bit I have learned so far is that "yes" that unit should suffice. That is if I am right in thinking the 135 means 135 amps. I know there is more to the story then just amps. I am going out on the limb w/o any further research and say for .125" that welding it should be no problem.
I can only offer further add is that you read about welding and watch you-tube for as much tutorial stuff as you can stand. I have and I think I can do a great job because I stayed at a Holiday Inn last week (joke...hope you recall the commercial).

Good luck.
Bob

First Post on Purchase of Trailer: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=60722
Hot water infloor and radiator heating project:[url]http://www.tnttt.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=54&t=62327[/

Image Image
User avatar
lrrowe
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3285
Images: 439
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:54 am
Location: SW Virigina
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby justageorgiaguy » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:36 pm

Thanks OP. I believe it will be ok for that as well. I love Welding Tips and Tricks on YouTube. I'll weld a good bit of scrap before trying anything substantial.
James Davidson
Photographer
http://www.jdavidsonphoto.com
User avatar
justageorgiaguy
Teardrop Advisor
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:50 am
Location: Cochran, GA
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby p40whk » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:54 am

The Millermatic will have no problem with 1/8" metal although you'd be pushing it to weld thicker. The more amps you have the less the machine has to work to penetrate (melt) the metal in order to form a weld. 135 and 140 amp machines are primarily home machines designed for light occasional use but they are more than capable for most jobs, thicker material will take more time to weld but it can be done. If you're in the market to buy your own machine, the best advice I can give is always buy more than you currently need because you'll eventually have the need for bigger projects.
p40whk
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:19 pm
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby Dale M. » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:20 am

justageorgiaguy wrote:I've been following this thread as I plan to start teaching myself to weld as well. My dad has a Millermatic 135, will that be sufficient to weld .125 and maybe a little thicker square tubing?


Yes.... .125 is actually 1/8 inch and it should handle it very well, actually should be good to 3/16 but is getting questionable at 1/4 inch (pretty close to maxing out - single pass) ...

Dale
Lives his life vicariously through his own self.

Any statement made by me are strictly my own opinion.
You are free to ignore anything I say if you do not agree.

Image
User avatar
Dale M.
2000 Club
2000 Club
 
Posts: 2693
Images: 18
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:50 pm
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite National Park
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby lrrowe » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:08 pm

I finally have gotten all the equipment and raw material needed to start learning how to build. I had decided on either a Hobart or Lincoln 190 Amp 230V welder (whichever had the lowest price at the time my credit card was in my hand ) but a friend suggested I buy his 10 year old Eastman 85 Amp 110V unit that had never been used for $50. I could not pass this opportunity up. It provided a very lost cost to start off with and to make sure I can learn how to weld adequately for my needs. Then if all goes well, I will work on getting the bigger Hobart or Lincoln unit.

Image

Now I have a $100 worth of raw material from a local metal supply shop, a HF welding table, a HF metal chop saw and some rebar for my first welding attempt. My wife, who has supported this craziness of buying all this stuff, asked that I make her a bottle tree for my first project. This is where the rebar comes into play.

Image

So now my eagerness needs to be contained while my fingers are crossed.
Bob

First Post on Purchase of Trailer: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=60722
Hot water infloor and radiator heating project:[url]http://www.tnttt.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=54&t=62327[/

Image Image
User avatar
lrrowe
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3285
Images: 439
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:54 am
Location: SW Virigina
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby KCStudly » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:23 pm

How do your welds look so far?

If the machine can lay good beads than you should be able to, too. If the machine is iffy, then how do you know if it is the machine or you?

Just saying. One thing to do to give it the best shot at laying good welds is to make sure you feed it an adequate supply of power. It may have already been mentioned but those little machines don't usually like being placed at the end of a long extension cord.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9610
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby lrrowe » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:48 pm

KCStudly wrote:How do your welds look so far?

If the machine can lay good beads than you should be able to, too. If the machine is iffy, then how do you know if it is the machine or you?

Just saying. One thing to do to give it the best shot at laying good welds is to make sure you feed it an adequate supply of power. It may have already been mentioned but those little machines don't usually like being placed at the end of a long extension cord.


Good questions KC.
I have not started yet. I was the pleasant victim last week of seeing my sister come visit from Chicago after not seeing her for a few years and then having some doctor appointments. I have a tentative plan to give it a try later this week after one more out of town doctor appointment. I guess my definition for being ready is whether my first few projects give me confidence that this is for me. And yes I know, I then will benefit from a bigger more powerful machine such as the 190 Amp 230V units. But now I just moved my awning and solar panels up the $$$$$$ list of things needed before that.

Even when (right now I am saying when and not "if") I have the 190 Amp unit, I see this smaller unit being useful for when I need to weld something small away from the 230V plug. I know I can get pricey 25 foot special cables for a 230V unit, but I did want to avoid that scenario. And I cannot use the Mig gas with this small unit.

I may have mentioned this before, but one way I am cost justifying these dollar purchases is that when I am ready to totally throw in the towel, that I have items that I can pass on to my sons. Sort of like spending their inheritances now and using the purchases way before they get their chance to get them.
Bob

First Post on Purchase of Trailer: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=60722
Hot water infloor and radiator heating project:[url]http://www.tnttt.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=54&t=62327[/

Image Image
User avatar
lrrowe
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3285
Images: 439
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:54 am
Location: SW Virigina
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby KCStudly » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:42 pm

My misunderstanding. I thought you had already made the bottle tree pictured.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9610
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby skinnedknuckles » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:05 pm

Bob,
Here is a little test so you can see what kind of penetration that welder gets. Take 2 pieces of 1/4" steel or maybe a little thinner ( 1/4 x 2 would be ideal ) grind beveled edges on the pieces where you would weld them together, only go about half way down the thickness of the edge. Only do this on the area where you are going to put the weld bead. Turn your welder up to max voltage and you may have to play with the wire speed to get it close to right ( do this on a flat surface not trying to join anything , get it so you get a nice puddle to "chase" ). Now put those two pieces together with a very small gap between and burn them together on only the top surface ( don't cheat and weld the bottom surface too :oops: I won't say who did this back in high school for a welding test ) Then put it in a vise and bend it over the weld area, you would like to see a good bend of the parent and weld area of the metal, with weld holding up well and not breaking . I figure the best way to learn to weld is first with an oxy-acetylene gas torch that way you can figure out what metal does when heated and melted together and how to chase your weld puddle. With mig welding you can have a pretty looking weld on the outside and very little penetration and/or porosity in your weld. I like your thoughts on spending your kids inheritance now using the item for what you need and then it can be handed down :thumbsup:
Paul in Janesville, Wisconsin
still making messes just like when I was little :lol:
skinnedknuckles
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 100
Images: 21
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:44 pm
Location: West Bend Wisconsin
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby lrrowe » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:50 am

skinnedknuckles wrote:Bob,
Here is a little test so you can see what kind of penetration that welder gets. Take 2 pieces of 1/4" steel or maybe a little thinner ( 1/4 x 2 would be ideal ) grind beveled edges on the pieces where you would weld them together, only go about half way down the thickness of the edge. Only do this on the area where you are going to put the weld bead. Turn your welder up to max voltage and you may have to play with the wire speed to get it close to right ( do this on a flat surface not trying to join anything , get it so you get a nice puddle to "chase" ). Now put those two pieces together with a very small gap between and burn them together on only the top surface ( don't cheat and weld the bottom surface too :oops: I won't say who did this back in high school for a welding test ) Then put it in a vise and bend it over the weld area, you would like to see a good bend of the parent and weld area of the metal, with weld holding up well and not breaking . I figure the best way to learn to weld is first with an oxy-acetylene gas torch that way you can figure out what metal does when heated and melted together and how to chase your weld puddle. With mig welding you can have a pretty looking weld on the outside and very little penetration and/or porosity in your weld. I like your thoughts on spending your kids inheritance now using the item for what you need and then it can be handed down :thumbsup:
Paul in Janesville, Wisconsin
still making messes just like when I was little :lol:


Thanks. I was looking for a test process. I will give it a try.
Bob

First Post on Purchase of Trailer: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=60722
Hot water infloor and radiator heating project:[url]http://www.tnttt.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=54&t=62327[/

Image Image
User avatar
lrrowe
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3285
Images: 439
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:54 am
Location: SW Virigina
Top

Re: Trying to weld for first time

Postby Redneck Teepee » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:39 am

[quote="skinnedknuckles"]Bob,
Turn your welder up to max voltage and you may have to play with the wire speed to get it close to right


To help a little further, hold in one spot and have another person adjust the wire speed until it buzz's like a bee, your wire speed is then correct for the heat setting. Once you master a steady hand you will be able to do this by yourself. :)
I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction, the world will have a generation of idiot's.
User avatar
Redneck Teepee
Silver Donating Member
 
Posts: 853
Images: 21
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:00 pm
Location: Central Ca.
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Teardrop Construction Tips & Techniques

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests