Trying to weld for first time

[Dale M.]

I owned a hobart 140 and now a miller 211. The hobart was made with all miller parts. When I broke a knob on it, it was a miller replacement part. They are great machines and the 140 (at the time) was the biggest 110v machine you could get. I'd avoid the china ones personally and finding a used lincoln on craigslist is typically pretty easy as well. One advantage of lincolns is that Lowes/HomeDepot sells consumables for them. But if you have a welding shop nearby then the advantage is gone.

Oh, one bit to add. When I called Hobart for that broken piece, a real person answered on the second ring.

Not just a LINCOLN - Lowes/HomeDepot thing....... Consumables are pretty much standard all across the board like .030 wire is just that (so to speak) what matters is brand quality and individual unit specifications, like there is maybe 10 brands of wire out there and no two weld exactly alike even with same specs. ... Most any store with welding supplies will sell contact tips and gels and ground clamps and whatever...

My sources locally are ACE hardware, and True Value hardware, and a Do It Best hardware..... Nearest welding supply for me is 40 miles away..... Do not get caught into only XXXXXX brand and only YYYYYYYY stores carry correct consumable and there is probably 100 online suppliers for consumables if you are looking for something very, very, very specific.... Also shop around at welding suppliers, there is quite a variation in pricing on things like shield gas if you go that way ... One supplier wanted $300 for a 124 Cu-ft bottle (purchase price ) with fill up of C25 gas... Supplier 6 blocks down street gave me deal on same product for $195...

Dale

[Socal Tom]

Get a good name for your welder, hobart, mil!er, Lincoln. The cheapo welders do a lousy job, just changing welders made my welds much better.
Tom

[lrrowe]

Thanks all.
I have a Hobart 140amp on my radar screen. Northern Tool has a $50 coupon getting the price down to $449.
For $499, Eastwood has a 175 amp unit with a spool gun for aluminum which I like ( which about a $200 option).

I guess you can say that the encouragement and advice given here convinced to be ready to spend maybe 2X what I was going to do before. And no HF units.

Regarding the Hobart 140 which I do like better, my web reading gives me the impression that given taking my time and being cautious, I could weld aluminum w/o having to have the gun spooler. And I do not plan on doing that much in aluminum. Maybe a front end rod rack for the truck, a storage bin for the tonque, etc.

[MtnDon]

Aluminum calls for different gas than mild steel, pure argon. Some MIG feed wheels are not good for the softer aluminum wire. Aluminum expands more when heated so the tips need a larger, but not too large hole. And some guns with metallic liners abrade the aluminum wire. Welding aluminum is more different than just the material being welded. But it can be done at home.

[lrrowe]

Aluminum calls for different gas than mild steel, pure argon. Some MIG feed wheels are not good for the softer aluminum wire. Aluminum expands more when heated so the tips need a larger, but not too large hole. And some guns with metallic liners abrade the aluminum wire. Welding aluminum is more different than just the material being welded. But it can be done at home.

That is pretty much what I gathered from my reading. In the case of aluminum, one apptroach that I might choose is to just to clamp things, weld tack sections and let a pro finish it. The same approach may work for me with steel.

This way, I am designing, building and letting better welders finish it, especially with structural work.

[Dale M.]

Aluminum calls for different gas than mild steel, pure argon. Some MIG feed wheels are not good for the softer aluminum wire. Aluminum expands more when heated so the tips need a larger, but not too large hole. And some guns with metallic liners abrade the aluminum wire. Welding aluminum is more different than just the material being welded. But it can be done at home.

That is pretty much what I gathered from my reading. In the case of aluminum, one apptroach that I might choose is to just to clamp things, weld tack sections and let a pro finish it. The same approach may work for me with steel.

This way, I am designing, building and letting better welders finish it, especially with structural work.

IF you are considering buying a spool gun and gas for just tacking some pieces of aluminum together, maybe at some time in future, and have pro actually finish welding it up, don't bother, it is a useless expense and headache to setup and then tear down you MIG machine to put it back to steel welding parameters....

If you are only going to tack steel stuff together and have work finished by pro, same advice (sort of) , get cheapest bubblegum machine you can becasue tack welds don't count, if you want to weld and do quality work the you can rely on then go for the gusto and get really good machine.... And take class at adult night school (high school or junior college) and learn to weld....

There is no in between either you can and will become a welder or you won't.... I am not profession trained welder but have been welding for 55 years (off and on) and have never had any failures that were "dangerous"....After retirement I spent a year helping in race car fabrication shop and learned the TIG welding us ultimate and when it comes to aluminum, there is no substitute for what a TIG machine and qualified welder can do when it comes to aluminum welding (and steel) .... Even fix a lot of crappy MIG aluminum welds....

I know this all sounds harsh, but buying good equipment and not utilizing it to its fullest potential is a waste of your time and money....I do not go lightly when I say this, becasue quite a few years ago I sold a really nice Lincoln Stick welder (old toomstone design) thinking I was through with my welding career (projects) .... Recently purchases a Hobart HH 140 becasue I wanted to get back into some fabrication after I moved into new home (in country) I have space for projects and the time, my only regret is I got a machine that was just a little bit to small because every once in a while I need a machine with more heat, really wish I has gotten a HH 210MPV or maybe Ironman 210 if I were to stay in lower end of quality machines ( as big lincolns and Miller and ESAB being more expensive) ... When you get close to thinking one needs to spend $1000 and upwards for welder you really have to justify the need.... For now, IF for some reason the project is beyond my skills and my machines capabilities I call "welder on wheels" to come by and complete welds, its expensive but that only happens once (maybe) every few years....

Dale

[lrrowe]

Thanks Dale. No I do not take it as harsh.
I posted my question here because I wanted inputs which I could use to help make a wise decision.
I will take yours and all the other very helpful inputs and go back to ground zero and think about what I really want to accomplish.

- One given is that I want to learn to weld.
- My strategy right now is to weld non-structual work so as to at at least have a pro validate it is good or to correct it to be safe.
- While money is tight, I can afford to do it part way right. This means maybe paying up to $500 for a unit. (I view these expeditures as advance purchases to my sons someday....just as I am building the CT with the idea they will have it for years to come).
- And I would like to do complete welding jobs without relying on pros to finish.
- And maybe aluminum welding is just a dream.

Other thoughts:
- I would love to take voc-tech classes, bur cannot find any nearby.
- I am too far in the country to maybe find traveling welders, but who knows? I will look around some more.

[OLDMERC]

Hobart is the cheapest of the big three and the handler 140 will do anything you will likely encounter . That said the Eastwood units get very good reviews . Just buy one and practice,practice,practice

[lrrowe]

Boy do I fall off the fence one moment in one direction and then the other direction later.
Now I am think that I do not need to think about welding aluminum so that will open up the field a little. Then I think that I am just a beginner and maybe may stink at welding and give it up. So all that does do is to lower my standards. But for the moment I am considering the Hobart 140 and the Eastwood 135.
I missed the sale for the Eastwood at $249. It is $279 now. If I were to order today, I would save the extra $200 and get the Eastwood. But now a deal on a Truckfridge TF51 portable refrigerator may come up and take away the priority for the welder til later this spring.

Thanks Oldmerc for the comments.

[p40whk]

Have you made a purchase yet?

If not let me throw a few things out there as I just finished researching and purchasing a new machine.

1) Welding is fun and addictive and you would outgrow a cheap machine fast, the Eastwood machines are not a good value.

2) If you've never welded before don't even consider a MIG for aluminum as you'll end up spending too much money for the added equipment over and above the cost of the machine.

3) Definitely go to Welding tips and tricks and read/learn as much as you can. This site has many Professionals that give great free advise! The forum is here http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/index.php and the main page is here: http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/ You could learn to weld from these two sources alone.

4) If your budget allows, you may want to consider a TIG/Stick Inverter which would allow you to weld just about anything. How about a quality TIG/Stick welder for $720? It's an AHP AlphaTig 200 and has outstanding reviews just about everywhere you search.

AlphaTig review on Welding Tips and Tricks: http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7325&p=54093&hilit=Alphatig+200#p54093

Amazon's Page: http://www.amazon.com/AHP-AlphaTIG-Stick-Welder-PULSE/dp/B00REX6USW/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1453214187&sr=1-1&keywords=ahp+alphatig+200x (Number 1 seller on Amazon)

Youtube review: https://youtu.be/tHN0OqTg4UI and a Comparison to an Eastwood machine: https://youtu.be/oISSe0Itq7U

5) People say TIG is harder but really it's what you learn on. I'm a licensed A&P (aircraft) mechanic and have done quite a bit of welding. I find stick welding to be the easiest and MIG to be the hardest (for me) because I learned on stick. The above machine will do both Stick and TIG and do it as well as machines costing 3-4 times the cost.

Not trying to sell you something here but wanted to throw another option out there. You will not be happy with a HF machine. I have a Hobart Handler 175 and while it's a decent machine but, I found myself limited to what I could do with it. If you ever think you might want to weld aluminum or stainless you're better off getting a machine that can do that now (If you can afford it).

Once you start throwing sparks you start looking for more projects to do because it is fun! Sure, you can take your critical items to a professional but if you're mechanically inclined you may find that you can do those items yourself with a little practice.

[lrrowe]

Have you made a purchase yet?

Funny thing---actually started to fill out the order form yesterday for the Eastwood Model 135 for $279. Just sat on pressing the "order" button overnight.

If not let me throw a few things out there as I just finished researching and purchasing a new machine.

1) Welding is fun and addictive and you would outgrow a cheap machine fast, the Eastwood machines are not a good value.

I understand this and do consider future usages. The Hobart 140 would be my next choice, but it is $180 more. Money I could spend right now for partial payment for solar or an awning for the trailer. I, like most builders, am on a budget.

2) If you've never welded before don't even consider a MIG for aluminum as you'll end up spending too much money for the added equipment over and above the cost of the machine.

I think I have given up on considering welding aluminum. Almost all of my planned work would be on steel. Any aluminum projects could be "outsourced entirely".

3) Definitely go to Welding tips and tricks and read/learn as much as you can. This site has many Professionals that give great free advise! The forum is here http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/index.php and the main page is here: http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/ You could learn to weld from these two sources alone.

Yes I will look at sites like this. Plus I will also leverage my being friends with at least two guys who weld. One a retired professional welder and another, a soon to be retired college professor who is an amature who welds for his farm.

4) If your budget allows, you may want to consider a TIG/Stick Inverter which would allow you to weld just about anything. How about a quality TIG/Stick welder for $720? It's an AHP AlphaTig 200 and has outstanding reviews just about everywhere you search.

My priority of expenditures budget do not allow that much of a speand.

AlphaTig review on Welding Tips and Tricks: http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7325&p=54093&hilit=Alphatig+200#p54093

Amazon's Page: http://www.amazon.com/AHP-AlphaTIG-Stick-Welder-PULSE/dp/B00REX6USW/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1453214187&sr=1-1&keywords=ahp+alphatig+200x (Number 1 seller on Amazon)

Youtube review: https://youtu.be/tHN0OqTg4UI and a Comparison to an Eastwood machine: https://youtu.be/oISSe0Itq7U

Thanks, I will look at these links.

5) People say TIG is harder but really it's what you learn on. I'm a licensed A&P (aircraft) mechanic and have done quite a bit of welding. I find stick welding to be the easiest and MIG to be the hardest (for me) because I learned on stick. The above machine will do both Stick and TIG and do it as well as machines costing 3-4 times the cost.

I will give this some consideration (meaning do some quick research), but my gut feeling is that I should stick to MIG.

Not trying to sell you something here but wanted to throw another option out there. You will not be happy with a HF machine. I have a Hobart Handler 175 and while it's a decent machine but, I found myself limited to what I could do with it. If you ever think you might want to weld aluminum or stainless you're better off getting a machine that can do that now (If you can afford it).

I asked for help and thoughts and therefore very much appreciate all inputs, especially ones like yours. Your message came just a few hours right before I was to place the "order" button as mentioned above. The HF thought is gone, although I could spend $180 two times for an HF 175 amp unit and still spend less then the Hobart. But I do not want the potential hassle. Yes I have the money available to spend on a VG unit, but I do not want to allocate that much at this stage of my welding experience. I am not adverse to getting a fair unit, liking welding and then giving the unit to my son should I want to upgrade. I consider these thoughts as presents.

Once you start throwing sparks you start looking for more projects to do because it is fun! Sure, you can take your critical items to a professional but if you're mechanically inclined you may find that you can do those items yourself with a little practice.

This is good news to hear. My wife already as asked for a metal bottle tree for her blue wine bottles (the best part is that I help drink the wine).

So what this means is that I will spend another day or two to ponder your thoughts and my current mindset. Again, thank you and all the other posters who shard their thoughts. That is what this forum shines at.

[p40whk]

Good thought process Bob, I think you're on the right track for what you want to do and your budget. MIG is an inexpensive way to get into welding and I think you'll like doing it. One thing I would suggest if you don't do anything else is invest in a decent welding helmet. Being able to see what you're welding is key to making good welds and preserving your sanity. Stay away from the HF helmets, they're safe but not the best quality.

You may also want to look at a welding shirt and gloves. Doesn't need to be a dedicated welding shirt, a heavy denim shirt will do but you'll find out fast the first time you weld without protection how easy it is to ruin cloths and burn yourself!

Post pics of your projects when you get them, always love seeing what others are working on.

[lrrowe]

Good thought process Bob, I think you're on the right track for what you want to do and your budget. MIG is an inexpensive way to get into welding and I think you'll like doing it. One thing I would suggest if you don't do anything else is invest in a decent welding helmet. Being able to see what you're welding is key to making good welds and preserving your sanity. Stay away from the HF helmets, they're safe but not the best quality.

You may also want to look at a welding shirt and gloves. Doesn't need to be a dedicated welding shirt, a heavy denim shirt will do but you'll find out fast the first time you weld without protection how easy it is to ruin cloths and burn yourself!

Post pics of your projects when you get them, always love seeing what others are working on.

Thanks p40whk,
I did do one google search on TIG vx. MIG since the prior post. Interesting. This one makes me lean towards MIG. But I will continue to view other links.
http://www.kevincaron.com/video_detail.php?id=255

If nothing else, I will at least move my minimum product to the Hobart 140.

I have the gloves and as to your thoughts, I have already got the HF helmet. When the lower quality takes over, I will upgrade. And I am looking in my closets for something heavy for my jacket.

Can I only post the good work and hide the bad stuff?

[p40whk]

I have the gloves and as to your thoughts, I have already got the HF helmet. When the lower quality takes over, I will upgrade. And I am looking in my closets for something heavy for my jacket.

Can I only post the good work and hide the bad stuff?

The HF helmet will work, I've used them but found they're a bit finicky for their auto darkening and I had a hard time seeing the weld puddle with them. An option that is about the same price as the HF one you have is this from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Antra-AH6-260-0000-Darkening-Welding-Helmet/dp/B00BWAEYV8/ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1453224242&sr=1-4&keywords=welding+helmet it's their #1 seller and works well, I use one as a back-up.

Only show your good welds! Ansel Adams once said (and I'm paraphrasing) "The difference between a good photographer and a bad photographer is that a good photographer never shows their bad prints" Same applies to anything artistic!

[lrrowe]