Trailer Tear Apart in Progress. Need opinions.

[lacofdfireman]

As some of you may remember I posted on here a few weeks ago about some plywood cracking I was having since I made a huge mistake and sprayed Raptor Liner over untreated 1/4” Baltic Birch plywood. Now I’m paying the price. The Raptor liner dried hard as a rock but the wet weather we’ve had and the wood expanding and contracting I had bad cracks in the wood surface everywhere. So I decided it’s time to fix the issue.

Well I had decided to take the easy route to fix my trailer issues and went and bought some PPG Gripper paint and decide to paint over the Raptor liner. Well once I bough the paint and pulled my trailer out to wash it I looked at the cracking and it had gotten worse. Like way worse. To the point you could grab the first layer of Baltic birch and just pull off the layers in huge pieces. See pic below. So I decided that maybe i would just pull off the first layer of Baltic birch but that didn’t go so well either.



So then I made the decision that I’m going to just pull the entire outer skin off the entire trailer. So now I have to do some real work. Finding all the screws was made much easier with a good strong magnet. And once found I’d go after the area with the claw of a hammer to expose the screw head. Took about 4hrs with my two boys helping to do this. It was no easy task. But I want to do this right this time so I don’t have to do it again.



It’s going to be an all day project to strip this entire trailer but I think it’s the right way to go about this.




So I have a few questions. I hate to say I need to cheap out on this but I really do need to finish this the least expensive way possible. I would love to fiberglass (even though I really don’t know how) or use aluminum or sheet metal but I’ve already put to much money into this and need to somehow find the best way to seal the wood and just get it done.

I’m really considering the PMF method of finishing this. Can someone please educate me on the best way to finish this off that isn’t going to be super expensive? If doing PMF do I need to treat the wood first? If so what with? Seems like I’ve seen people just paint the exterior with paint then lay on the fabric drop cloth and then paint again over that. Will this work or do I need to do more prep work first?


Also I originally skinned my outside of my trailer with 1/4” Baltic birch. Should I use the same again or go a different route? If different what should I use?



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[troubleScottie]

The general opinion might be an application of "The Mix" followed by Gripper Primer then exterior house paint. Be very attentive to the seams as that is the most likely point of failure. Personally I like Kilz brand primer.

Another suggestion for the mix: "The best for the money is Minwax Spar polyurethane. It is an exterior poly and has UV protection. For my "mix", I do 25% poly to 75% mineral spirits, then 50:50, then 75:25 and finally full poly. The idea is that the 25% provides some fill protection as the mineral spirits/paint thinner (exactly the same thing) pulls the poly into the pores of the wood. You'll need to do maintenance on any exposed poly about once every year or so."

Mineral spirits is a more refined version of paint thinner so may give a better coat.

Look thru the Skinning Secrets section for peoples advice and experience.

[lacofdfireman]

The general opinion might be an application of "The Mix" followed by Gripper Primer then exterior house paint. Be very attentive to the seams as that is the most likely point of failure. Personally I like Kilz brand primer.

Another suggestion for the mix: "The best for the money is Minwax Spar polyurethane. It is an exterior poly and has UV protection. For my "mix", I do 25% poly to 75% mineral spirits, then 50:50, then 75:25 and finally full poly. The idea is that the 25% provides some fill protection as the mineral spirits/paint thinner (exactly the same thing) pulls the poly into the pores of the wood. You'll need to do maintenance on any exposed poly about once every year or so."

Mineral spirits is a more refined version of paint thinner so may give a better coat.

Look thru the Skinning Secrets section for peoples advice and experience.

Thanks so much for the advice. Now another dumb question. Should I treat all the wood with “The Mix.” I know obviously I need to treat the exterior skin but what about all my 2x3 studs etc underneath the outer skin? Thanks for the info on “The Mix.” Im definitely going to do this before I can’t with anything.

Also I e spent the last few hours tonight reading up on PMF and trying to wrap my head around it. I really think I’d like to give it a try but it seems like most the information is about PMF on foamies and not a wood trailer build. But I have watched a couple YouTube videos where they have used PMF over wood with excellent results. My only and biggest hang up with it is how to finish the edges so it doesn’t look trashy. My trailer has a few angles that probably won’t look to great with the overlapping cloth.


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[working on it]

... the mix: ... Minwax Spar polyurethane. It is an exterior poly and has UV protection. For my "mix", I do 25% poly to 75% mineral spirits, then 50:50, then 75:25 and finally full poly....

*My squareback TTT was done with the "mix", in the same sequence and proportions that troubleScottie did. Except that I used the quick-dry Minwax poly, and paint thinner. I painted the trailer over two very hot days in 106-110F weather, in direct sun, so I did each layer, let them get really tacky, then progressed to the next layer, finishing with pure poly. I let them dry overnight in a closed shop (40x60ft) of my friend's, and followed-up with top-coating (2 or 3, I forget which) the next day.

*The top coats were acrylic enamels, one an aluminized silo paint (from Tractor Supply, made by Valspar), and also Tractor and Implement paint (again TSC, & Valspar). After completion, I left the trailer in the shop, again, this time for a week. Then, I used Rustoleum black enamel to put 3-4 layers on the exposed plywood edges as a contrasting trim accent, and as extra protection (probably unnecessary, since the wood was "plasticized by the "mix", already). All products used were high VOC, high solvent content, so the solvent acted to chemically bond each layer to the predecessor.

*The plywood was pre-sanded, without any pre-paint prep (no roughening with sandpaper), just a wipe-off with a rag of paint thinner. No sanding between coats, either, nor ever. Even when I've touched-up contact damage over the past 6.5 years, I just wipe the area again with a rag, and paint over the spot...blends in everytime. It spends most of the year in a dusty garage, but the paint & poly has held up perfectly, and still is impervious to rain & sun.

*Maybe I was lucky, as a plywood and paint noob, but I did research on many coatings for similar solvent bases, which they all have in common. I think the coatings all intermixed, due to similar chemical makeup, and that's why it has fared so well. If it hadn't, my back-up plan was to use bedliner spray/roll-on to cover it all...see where that got you? Perhaps you got a bad batch of product?

[lacofdfireman]

[quote="working on it"][/quote]

So you basically just did “The Mix” treatment and then painted directly over that and that’s it? And no issues? Mine will be stored outdoors that’s why I’ve been considering the PMF. I will have many days well over 100 degrees in the summer with winters in the 20’s -30’s so I see a huge temperature range difference. That’s what makes me nervous about just doing “The Mix” and paint only. I figured the fabric would give some added strength possibly.


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[Nodrog]

Hey there- I would urge you to try the pmf. I don't know if primer will really stick the same to ply treated with the mix, seems to me poly is pretty repellent, I think I would want the primer to stick like he-- to the ply. Glidden gripper, of course! The stickiest all around primer. Around here ( western Oregon) we can get a "mahogany" ply with outdoor glue pretty reasonable, comes in a thickness near 1/4, that should do ya. Is the trailer side coverable by a single sheet of 4x8 ply? That would be nice for smoothness of the finished product. Get canvas from Big Duck canvas or similar outfit in a size that will let you wrap over the top and front in 1 piece, sides 1 piece each. Overlap top over sides. When you get to edge of top, use a straightedge to draw carefully a 1 1/2 or 2" lap, cut very carefully with very sharp nice scissors, then glue down with paint. See this thread for inspiration viewtopic.php?f=55&t=62527 . Even though he did the canvas over foam, the work is amazing, an example for us all! When you already have ply underneath, you won't need real heavy canvas. I used some muslin and paint to patch some cracked shingles on the gable of our house. It might be 3 oz per square yard, pretty light! The paint permeated the whole piece, making it a fabric reinforced latex covering. And sticks something fierce! Try a piece of sheet, something cotton, with a piece of plywood, push the fabric down smooth with a bondo squeegee, then put more primer right on top, doing it all wet wont hurt, I think. When you do the trailer do an area pretty straight across, small enough at a time to work down, squeegee firmly but gently enough to keep from pushing a bunch of wrinkles into the fabric. Keep a wet edge. You want to get the fabric tight enough that you don't have real thick paint underneath that when it dries will leave voids (bubbles) when the water leaves. Also, staple the ply on with an air brad/stapler, from Harbor Freight if you want. The galv staples will hold well and not make too big of dents to fill. Not least of all, find a strip of vinyl to staple around the bottom, to protrude over the bottom edge, and provide a drip edge. Run the fabric right over that. Gripper will stick really well to the vinyl. Try a sample of any latex paint and some cotton fabric first, you will be amazed! Fabric over ply is great! Easier than you know! Fun! I'll keep an eye on this thread, rooting for you! ...Nodrog

[working on it]

...So you basically just did “The Mix” treatment and then painted directly over that and that’s it? And no issues? Mine will be stored outdoors that’s why I’ve been considering the PMF. I will have many days well over 100 degrees in the summer with winters in the 20’s -30’s so I see a huge temperature range difference. That’s what makes me nervous about just doing “The Mix” and paint only. I figured the fabric would give some added strength possibly....

Yep, just as I stated. And I always stored it in it's own garage bay, as I always intended. That way, I can avoid many probable causes of paint/wood failure over the years. I know that if I have had difficulty cleaning & maintaining the paint & finish on my outdoor-stored vehicles & trailers, then I didn't want the same, or worse, with a plywood trailer outside.

I have lots of oak trees and problems with branches, leaves, and pollen (everything gets green in spring) problems, year-round, and surface mold during wetter months on all my outdoor vehicles, but direct sunlight during the summer (May-October, here in N. Texas) is the main problem I tried to avoid. High UV exposure, coupled with the drying-out effect of 100+ temperatures, will affect any surface coating, even PMF or epoxy, over time. There's no such thing as a perfect covering.

If I'd put up a metal carport-type covering for my trailer, if I hadn't made the garage bay opening for it (and sized the overall length of the trailer to fit, with working space front and rear), then I'd still have UV from the sides to deal with, aging the painted surface, unlike in the closed garage. Now, I only worry about exterior dust build-up, and/or mildew to clean away, after many months of sitting idle (interior is vented, allowing airflow, but no dust nor mildew ever, for some reason, thankfully). As-is-stored, the paint-over-poly might outlast me, as I've been exposed to the outdoors conditions for 60+ years longer!

[lacofdfireman]

...So you basically just did “The Mix” treatment and then painted directly over that and that’s it? And no issues? Mine will be stored outdoors that’s why I’ve been considering the PMF. I will have many days well over 100 degrees in the summer with winters in the 20’s -30’s so I see a huge temperature range difference. That’s what makes me nervous about just doing “The Mix” and paint only. I figured the fabric would give some added strength possibly....

Yep, just as I stated. And I always stored it in it's own garage bay, as I always intended. That way, I can avoid many probable causes of paint/wood failure over the years. I know that if I have had difficulty cleaning & maintaining the paint & finish on my outdoor-stored vehicles & trailers, then I didn't want the same, or worse, with a plywood trailer outside.

I have lots of oak trees and problems with branches, leaves, and pollen (everything gets green in spring) problems, year-round, and surface mold during wetter months on all my outdoor vehicles, but direct sunlight during the summer (May-October, here in N. Texas) is the main problem I tried to avoid. High UV exposure, coupled with the drying-out effect of 100+ temperatures, will affect any surface coating, even PMF or epoxy, over time. There's no such thing as a perfect covering.

If I'd put up a metal carport-type covering for my trailer, if I hadn't made the garage bay opening for it (and sized the overall length of the trailer to fit, with working space front and rear), then I'd still have UV from the sides to deal with, aging the painted surface, unlike in the closed garage. Now, I only worry about exterior dust build-up, and/or mildew to clean away, after many months of sitting idle (interior is vented, allowing airflow, but no dust nor mildew ever, for some reason, thankfully). As-is-stored, the paint-over-poly might outlast me, as I've been exposed to the outdoors conditions for 60+ years longer!

See here is my issue with doing PMF. Seems like there is more than one way to do this which is ok but after spending all day yesterday tearing my old one apart I need to do this once and be done. Your telling me to do “The Mix” first before PMF and the post just above yours says don’t do it because “The Mix” will keep the paint from soaking into the wood.

This trailer will be stored outside for sure. No choice here. I have temp extremes from 110 degrees plus in the summer to in the 20’s in the winter.

Also it was mentioned to run a strip of vinyl across the bottom edge and then to PMF over that. I considered running my vinyl all the way down to the bottom of my 2” metal frame rail. Will the PMF stick to metal or is there to big of temperature changes on metal to make it work.

Thanks again for everyone’s replies. Hope you understand why all the questions. I just don’t want to have to do those tear down again. I’ve learned a hard lesson here.


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[tony.latham]

If you want to include this in your will, seal it with fiberglass/epoxy followed by some type of UV protectant.

I'm not convinced that PMF is much ––if any–– cheaper than fiberglass/epoxy. Applying Fiberglass/epoxy isn't any more difficult than PMF. (I've never done PMF, just read about it, but I've used fiberglass a lot.)

That's my thoughts.

Tony

[lacofdfireman]

If you want to include this in your will, seal it with fiberglass/epoxy followed by some type of UV protectant.

I'm not convinced that PMF is much ––if any–– cheaper than fiberglass/epoxy. Applying Fiberglass/epoxy isn't any more difficult than PMF. (I've never done PMF, just read about it, but I've used fiberglass a lot.)

That's my thoughts.

Tony

How much fiberglass epoxy do you think it would take to cover this entire trailer? Profile is 4x8 and is 5ft wide? Maybe I’ll get a price for epoxy and see.

Had someone on another thread recommend Raka epoxy and fiberglass cloth. My issue is I’ve never worked with epoxy so have no clue how much would be needed and when I went to the Raka website there is 20 different types of fiberglass cloth. I’d need someone to send me a couple links. Like buy this epoxy and hardner in this amount and then a link that says use this cloth in this weave and how many oz cloth. Then I can determine price etc. if it’s not crazy expensive I wouldn’t mind giving it a try.


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[tony.latham]

My issue is I’ve never worked with epoxy so have no clue how much would be needed and when I went to the Raka website there is 20 different types of fiberglass cloth.

The rule of thumb is about 2.5 ounces per ounce of cloth but since this is over wood ––which will suck some epoxy–– 3 oz. per oz. of glass is a place to start.

The yard rating for fiberglass is what a square yard weighs ––not a running yard that may be 50" or 60" wide.

We aren't trying to add strength so 2 oz (50") cloth is fine. For the sides you'll need 9 yards, (right?) $31.

Each running yard is about 4 oz, so that's 36 oz.

The only 60" glass I see on Raka's site is 4 oz. and you'll need 3 yards. $21.

Another 24 oz? For a total of 60 oz of cloth? X 3 = 120 oz of epoxy or a gallon.

Thus their six-quart kit should work fine. $91. I can recommend Raka's medium for glassing (I like their thin stuff for galley floors and the bottom of the floor.)

Assuming my math is correct, $200. (How much is "poor" man's fiberglass?)

Buy their pumps. Mix tiny batches stir it well. Avoid paint brushes, use plastic squeegees.

Here's a quick primer:



You'll want to watch a bunch of other videos too... and some reading. Grab another hose dragger for the big day and do the roof first.





Tony

[Xanthoman]

A good resource to check on information is fiberglasssite.com. They have videos on the differences between all the various cloths and what they are used for. In their informational section they explain how to waterproof decks (basically exactly what you’ll be doing) and have resin proportions as well. Their prices are pretty good too, but seem similar to Raka, according to Tony’s numbers, so it may come down to shipping. Biggest thing with waterproofing plywood is to do a priming epoxy coat on the wood and then apply glass and impregnate it. Most issues of delamination occur because the glass was laid on dry ply and it doesn’t have enough resin to impregnate the wood and glass simultaneously. If you want one and done then the fiberglass option is for you. All the other homemade composite systems (PMF etc.) need some tinkering over the years, the epoxy options aren’t going anywhere. Use epoxy instead of polyester as it has more toughness. It’s a bit more expensive but handles vibration better and smells a ton better while applying.

[lacofdfireman]

A good resource to check on information is fiberglasssite.com. They have videos on the differences between all the various cloths and what they are used for. In their informational section they explain how to waterproof decks (basically exactly what you’ll be doing) and have resin proportions as well. Their prices are pretty good too, but seem similar to Raka, according to Tony’s numbers, so it may come down to shipping. Biggest thing with waterproofing plywood is to do a priming epoxy coat on the wood and then apply glass and impregnate it. Most issues of delamination occur because the glass was laid on dry ply and it doesn’t have enough resin to impregnate the wood and glass simultaneously. If you want one and done then the fiberglass option is for you. All the other homemade composite systems (PMF etc.) need some tinkering over the years, the epoxy options aren’t going anywhere. Use epoxy instead of polyester as it has more toughness. It’s a bit more expensive but handles vibration better and smells a ton better while applying.

Well due to time restraint and the learning curve I’m going to pass on epoxy fiberglass. I would like to learn it however. Maybe for a future build. This one will be getting PMF for sure. Thanks for the website and tips. I’ll definitely bookmark that site.


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