A-Frame Pop Up

[Fuzzy Bear]

Hi all, new here, though I've been lurking for a few weeks reading all the great posts.

I have a 1988 Sun Lite pop up trailer on which the canvas is shot. At first I considered replacing the canvas, but I've always been intrigued with the Aliner hard sided trailers and wondered if I could build one. So for the past few months I've been working on designs, trying to work out all the details and I think I'm ready to give it a go. I'm sure I'll run into all kinds of things which will make me scratch my head and wonder why did I even attempt this, but then, overcoming the problems is half the fun.

Anyways, my starting point is to use the existing box of the tent trailer which is 10'X6'X2'. First thing I will do is add to the side walls to bring them up to 36" to give me added headroom. Then build the 2 roof panels which will fold one on top of the other to form the A frame roof. Then on to the folding side walls and voila, a finished trailer. Sounds simple huh? I'm guessing though that a few issues might arise during construction.

Anyways, my first question is on the framing for the skeleton of the walls and roof. What size and type of wood should I use? I've read 1X3 or 1X2, can I use pine or should I use a pressure treated material? I even thought of getting 2X4's and ripping them in half, though one of the reasons for the design is to cut the weight down as much as possible. The existing trailer as it stands is around 1,600lbs dry weight and I want to try to cut as much weight as possible. The existing roof is quite heavy so I hope to lose a lot of the weight there in addition to removing the 2 bed slide outs at each end and even the canvas is surprisingly heavy.

I tried doing some searches to find out what others have used for framing, but haven't had any luck as far as specifics.

Once I get started I will put together a simple web site to document the progress. I've already done the basics and posted a couple pictures of the existing pop up trailer at www.aframecamper.homestead.com

Thanks in advance and I'm looking forward to this build and learning a lot.

[Nut]

Hey Fuzzy Bear, weclome to the site.
I was going to do the same thing with my pop-up frame but then changed my design ideas(for the 1000th time). Good luck with the build, and I can't wait to see your progress.

[tinksdad]

Pressure treated.... NO NO NO!!! You may not come in contact with it, but it still gives off fumes for a length of time that may or may not be hazardous to your health, especially in a closed environment!!

Pine will be just fine, if you can find good clear lumber or have the capability to rip it from wider stock to get the size you need. I don't have a table saw yet (I will before the next build!!), so I ended up using poplar for all my spars. The poplar from the big orange box store, although a tad more expensive, was clear and straight.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Thanks for the quick replies, I didn't think pressure treated was the right choice, just wanted someone to reinforce it. Pine it is. Luckily I have the table saw, among other assorted tools (finally can justify my having bought them). I'm probably going to go with 1X3 since that will work out best with the existing trailer box and just reinforce the critical joints with angle brackets.

Can't wait to get started.

[Miriam C.]

Welcome welcome! I cut my own spars and framing from 2" x 6" boards. Got the clearest I could find but they still wanted to warp when opened up. I clamped them together till I used them. I cut the a true 1x2" and set them 16" on center but some are closer cause I needed framing.

In most places you will not need 1x3" but it won't hurt unless you are worried about weight. Just plan for the insulation you need too.

Enjoy

This might give you some ideas.
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=17755

[Fuzzy Bear]

Well, finally got started last weekend. With scheduling it looks like this is going to be a slow build. Pulled the canvas and bed slides out of the pop up and started framing the first box extension wall (I'm raising the existing box wall from 24" to 36"). I put pics and a diary entry onto the web site listed in my first post (http://www.aframecamper.homestead.com). Hoping to get the last 3 box extension walls framed this weekend. I ended up with 1X3 pine for the framing that I ripped down to 1X2 3/16" so as to fit the existing sides of the trailer. The rest should go smoothly until I start on the roof and folding side walls. Thats when the real fun should begin. I've gone over a few hundred different design ideas, and each one raises more questions as to how everything will work smoothly. Oh well, I've always had luck with just building it and attcking each problem as it arises. After all, anyone can think it all out ahead of time [/url]

[Fuzzy Bear]

Looks like dear old ma nature is against me getting much done. Weekdays while at work, sunny and warm, weekends when I can do things, rain rain and more rain. One of the major drawbacks of not having garage space to build in. Well, just have to keep my fingers crossed that the weather finally cooporates before the first snow fall, Am hoping to get it weathertight before winter so I can work on the details even in the bad weather. Hopefully I'll be able to get a day of work in on this project soon. All this bad weather/ no building is giving me way to much time to come up with new ideas.

[jml79]

I have been thinking of doing exactly what you are doing ever since i got my new small suv. I love the teardrops but want a larger bed, floor space for the dog and possibly some sort of bathroom but i don want a tent trailer because I want minimal setup and the ability to spend a night or 2 during long drives in parking lots without unhitching. Anyhow both the site for the aliner trailers and chalet trailers have some videos and pics that might provide some insight. it seems as though they both use springs to lessen the load of the roof panels on setup. They also attach the lower roof panel to the top roof panel by arms that look to be about 3-5 ft long so that as one comes up so does the other. I was thinking that if you build the roof panels from 1/8" luan skins and 2" extruded polystyrene foam core (blue or pink insulation foam) with minimal framing it might be light enough to just lift. you could also use aluminium or filion for skins as long as you somehow bond it well. just some brainstorming thoughts. thats the stage i am at now.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I've seen the spring assist design Aliner uses and I just can't figure out how to recreate it. I'm hoping to use the existing lift arms that raise the original roof of the pop up, though I'm not sure if this will work with the new design and still have the proper leverage. As an alternative I thought about using exterior mounted (so they would not interfere with the side walls being raised) gas shocks like the ones I have on the tailgate of my SUV. I have done some looking and they make them fairly heavy duty so the weight shouldn't be an issue.

As for making the roof sections raise in harmony, I was thinking of using track and rollers from an overhead garage door. The rollers would be mounted to the inner roof and as it was raised, it would glide along the track pushing up the outer roof section. The front section of roof will close down over the rear to prevent an air scoop from where the two sections overlap since of necessity there will have to be a slight rise as a stop for the rear roof section when raised.

I plan to keep the roof as light as possible, hopefully to the point that lifting is not a major issue. I want to be able to lift it without any mechanical assistance, then whatever I did end up using would be more just helping and then holding in place while the side walls were raised which would give the roof its main means of support. I plan to frame the roof with 1X2 to keep it as light as possible while still maintaining structural integrity.

One of the first issues I had to contend with in doing this conversion was headroom at the front and rear of the trailer since this is where the seating is in the floor plan. If you are thinking of a build like this, be sure to take this into account. In asking for dimensions on an aliner forum from an owner I received measurements giving the box height of 32" and a depth of the ceiling of another 6". The existing box on my trailer was only 24" so first thing I have done is extend the side wall height an extra 12". With the roof overlap onto the box I will get an additional approx. 3 to 4" of depth. Unless you are planning on building from the frame up you will need to consider this. If your pop up is a high wall model, you shouldn't have an issue, otherwise you may need to do what I am doing and raise the side walls.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Well, got a bit more done this past weekend. I've got 4 of the 5 (2 sections on the door side) side wall extensions framed and attached to the existing box using 3" stainless self tapping screws that go through the aluminum rails and into the existing framing of the pop up box. I started to get the skin on using the luan plywood, primed on all 6 sides with 3 coats of KILLZ exterior primer. I have some new pictures posted at my web site showing the side walls. With a little luck, and if the "honey do" list isn't too large for the holiday weekend, I hope to finish up the side walls and start framing on the roof sections. Was originally planning to go camping in the tent for the holiday, but plans changed, so gives me a chance to get some more work done. Not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing

[Fuzzy Bear]

Got the chance to get some time in on my build over the holiday weekend. Finished the box wall extensions giving me a floor to fixed wall height of 36". All framed, skinned, primed, glued and caulked. Started workin on the roof panels. Started with the rear panel since this will fold under the front. Attached a 2X4 to the rear panel using 2) 4 1/2"X4 1/2" adjustable spring hinges. Mounted them to the 2X4 and the 2x4 blocking in the rear wall (this might be a bit overkill, but figured that the majority of the roof weight will be on these hinges). Installed them backwards so the spring tension would assist in raising the roof. It won't give me much, but every little bit helps. Had to shim them out about 1/8" so they work smoothly. They are heavy duty hinges, but even still I may add a third in the center. The roof sections are 7' 4" long and when raised will give me a height of approx. 8' 6" from floor to peak. After some studying I think I will frame the rear section by cutting the framing into the 2X4 and then attach the front framing on top of the 2X4 which will allow the two roof sections to sit relatively flat when folded.

Next step is to finish the framing of the rear roof section, and skin it, then remove the existing roof from the pop up before starting on the front roof section. As of right now I am planning on a 2'X4' fixed skylight in the rear (basically just a sheet of plexi framed into the roof and tinted using auto window tint), and 1 or possibly 2 operable roof vents in the front. My estimate for the roof sections puts the finished weight at around 50 pounds so they should be fairly easy to lift into place. I am going to try utilizing the existing lift arms, trying to reposition them so they will assist in raising the roof and hold it in place until the side walls are raised. The side walls will then be the main support for the roofs. As of now I am planning on coating the roofs with paint on bed liner. I've been told it has good water proofing properties as well as being flexible. One question I have is whether I should prime before putting the bed liner paint on? or just put it on over the bare wood. I'm getting to the point that I can really start visualizing the finished trailer. The roof will still present some challenges to make it able to raise easily, but I think I have the majority of it figured out.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Started framing on the rear roof section this weekend, framed the outside in a box just a hair wider than the walls to allow the sides to overlap the box walls for a weathertight seal. When I measured the diagonals I am within 1/16" of square (not sure how I got it that close ). Then set in spars at 18" on center and added a couple of diagonals in the front for added strength. Measured up 3' from the rear and framed in a sheet of plexiglass 20"X32" as a skylight centered in the roof. Mortised out the framing to allow the plexiglass to sit flush with the framing so when I add the sheathing it will sit tight against the frame. I'll add window tinting to it just before I sheathe over the outside. Should allow adequate lighting and a chance to see the stars while maintaining privacy. Glued and screwed all framing joints and added 4" corner braces to add strength. Once its sheathed it should be fairly rigid. So far I am under my estimated weight for the roof sections, though once I add the sheathing it should add a bit, I still think I will be able to keep it under 50 pounds per section, and possibly significantly under. I used 1X2 for the framing and right now I guesstimate it at approx. 20 to 25 pounds.

More pictures and details of the work done can be found on my web site www.aframecamper.homestead.com

[jml79]

I know that in the aliners the 2 roof panels support each other, not the side walls. I think that yours will almost do the same as you have to put one roof panel inside the other at the peak anyway. Adding maybe a small stop on the inside of the outside roof to kind of make a channel for the inside roof should accomplish this. Then you can make the side walls lighter as they only have to keep out the elements and the roof would hold itself up while you put up the side walls and doors. If my description is unclear, think of making a teepee out of sticks like when you light a campfire.

[S. Heisley]

Hi, Fuzzy Bear:

You're doing a good job on your own, but it never helps to have a source of ideas from somebody else as well. With that in mind, and, if you haven't already done so, click on the Design Library at the top of the screen and look at the Compact 3.

Scrolling down past the old pictures are some A-frame ideas and tips that were added fairly recently and may be helpful to you.

[Fuzzy Bear]

jml, thanks for the insight. I never thought of the fact that if the 2 roof sections took the main stress of the raised roof then the side walls could be lightened. I had planned on a lip on the front roof to lock the 2 together with an overlapping weatherstripping for water seal, but if I lock the rear roof rigidly into place that will in essence support the front roof section. I had planned to make the side walls a bit more rigid in the vertical stresses to take the weight of the roof, but maybe I can tone it down a bit. I'll know better when the two roof halves are constructed and in place to see just how much extra support is needed.

S Heisley, thanks for the link. I have looked over this site and never noticed any A frame construction. I can always use any input I can find and will read through there carefully. I've found that I'm basically making most of it up as I go along. The original plans gave me a starting point, but as I move forward a good many of the original concepts have gone out the window to practicality.