Our Take on the Sheep Wagon

Did you just design your very own teardrop or tiny trailer? Want to discuss it? Here's the place to post your design for discussion!

Postby sdakotadoug » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:14 pm

Very happy to see that you are going forward with the sheepcamp. I'm green with envy and hope that it turns out as perfect as you and DW imagine it to be. A big block Chevy isn't in my future as a tow vehicle so I am going to have to enjoy your build. Doug
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Postby sdakotadoug » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:22 pm

Oh, should have mentioned in the first post that I built a cedar strip canoe and had to laminate the stems (extreeme front and rear of the canoe). I used 1/4" ash and steam bent them. If you cut the wood thinner as in 1/8" or so you probably won't have to steam them. Its one of those things that seem really intimidating but was pretty simple once I started. As far as the stove, more than one sheepcamp I looked at had charring to the side of the stove. Common sense should prevail whether 1880 or 2010. Me, I'd keep the stove and even use it (with great caution). Doug
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Postby myoung » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:31 pm

Very intriguing design. This will be fun to follow.

:applause:

The body length (?) will be about 14 feet but what are the other basic dimensions?
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Postby Dusty82 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:05 pm

Thank you very much for the comments, Doug.

I have a couple of ways to go for making the various bows, and I haven't really decided which way I'm going to go yet.

Image

In this shot you can see that the front wall will be framed in 2X4 fir. Here I'll most likely make a template and cut pieces of 2X4 fir and join them with pocket hole screws, then trim the whole thing down to match the curve of the template with the router.

In about the center of that shot you can see an interior bow, a framing bow, and an exterior bow that look to be sandwiched together. Actually, there's a space between the interior bow and the framing bow for the ceiling panel, and a space between the framing bow and the exterior bow for the roof panel. I'll most likely use the same method you used on your canoe to make the interior and exterior bows.

The interior bows are primarily decorative, and we don't really know what species of wood we're going to use there yet. In the drawing I've textured them Red Oak just so I can tell them apart from the framing at a glance. I think I can use 1/4 inch thick strips of material to laminate them together since they're so long. I'll try the bend dry first to see if 1/4 inch thick strips are thin enough to make the bend. If not, I'll have to go with 1/8 inch thick strips.

Here's a screen shot of the interior, looking at the bed. It'll give you an idea of what it'll look like.

Image

The ceiling is "painted" white, but Sketch Up likes to add shadows, so... I've added window trim that matches the interior bows, and built a shelf above the window (no railing on the shelf yet - I'm still designing in my head.) We're debating small shelves or sconce lights flanking the window. I'll also add "stringers" along the sides, running from front to rear, to allow us to hang items from them. I'm debating on running decorative "framing" members along the peak of the roof, between the bows. I think it needs it to finish the design, but DW is undecided at the moment.

I'll use the same method for the exterior bows. They're also primarily decorative, but will also cover the joints in the aluminum roof panels, providing another layer of leak protection. These bows will be painted, and I'm thinking I'll use poplar to make them. Poplar has the strength I'll need, but is relatively light weight for a hard wood.

Here's a screen shot of the exterior bows in place over the aluminum roof panels.

Image

This pic is a little misleading in that it looks like the exterior bows stop at the top of the exterior wall, and a separate piece runs down the wall. I just need to clean up the drawing a bit - Sketch Up added a line at that point for some reason. The horizontal trim pieces running between the exterior bows will have a bevel cut into the top to allow rain water to run off of them, away from the aluminum roof panels, rather than pool on top of them.

Those with sharp eyes will see that the frame has been "painted" to match the exterior body color. DW decided that she didn't like the contrasting black frame. I'm debating on whether or not to run the exterior sheathing on the lower body down further to cover the frame entirely on the sides. She did, however, decide that she liked the black fenders, so we'll use them.
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Postby Dusty82 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:54 pm

myoung wrote:Very intriguing design. This will be fun to follow.

:applause:

The body length (?) will be about 14 feet but what are the other basic dimensions?


Heh - funny you should mention dimensions. I didn't really think about just how big this son of a gun is going to be until I started double checking to answer your question. This is gonna be a big bugger. It certainly doesn't qualify as a TTT anymore... :lol:

As drawn, the length of the body is 171 3/4" (14' 3 3/4".)

The width of the lower body section (where it meets the frame) is 69" (5' 9".)

The width of the upper body section (where the top bows meet the side walls) is 94 1/2" (7' 10 1/2".)

The overall height (from the peak of the roof to the ground) is a whopping 105 1/8" (8' 9 1/8".)

I drew everything to be in proportion, and didn't realize it was so wide or tall! The width of the stock trailer chassis is 93 3/4", so it didn't "grow" too much. I hadn't planned on being able to put this in a garage, so that's not a problem.

The body's actual height, from the top of the frame to the peak of the roof is 86" (7' 2") so that's not too bad.

Inside, the height is 79" from the floor to the peak of the ceiling (actually, to the inside of one of the interior top bows.) Oh well - she wanted something she could stand up in...

I'm going to do a bit of research to see just how big this bugger is as compared to other travel trailers of the same approximate length. I think I can trim the height of the side walls down a bit, but not much. I don't want to throw the whole thing out of proportion - it'll look even more like a mushroom that way.

Overall, I think it'll be okay. I'll certainly have to get the trailer's brakes in tip-top shape (not to mention the brakes on the van) but I know the van has the guts to pull it.
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Postby sdakotadoug » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:14 pm

I would recommend a little research on wood species with good bending properties. I went with ash because that was recommended in the canoe plans and books. I've since built several pieces of furniture with ash. It looks like a wide grained oak. I would think that most woods could be bent if the laminations were thin enough, but some wood is brittle and would crack or break regardless of how thin it was. I remain in awe of your computer design skills, Doug
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Postby Dusty82 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:38 pm

I was a custom cabinet maker for about 6 years, until a shoulder injury forced me to quit that career. I can still do woodworking as a hobby, but not for 8 hours a day, and I need help lifting some things I used to be able to toss around like a sheet of paper. Grrrrr - I hate getting old... :thumbdown:

I like ash, and it's nice to work with, but we're not sure what we want yet. I think something that light a color might be a bit too bright. I don't know - like I said, we're not sure what we want yet. For those who don't know what ash looks like, baseball bats and many tool handles (like shovels and rakes) are made from ash.

Another thing to consider is that when steam bending wood, it's best to start with green or air dried wood - anything but kiln dried lumber. That's a major factor for me, since a lot of species aren't available to me in anything but kiln dried form.

Here are a couple of sources I've used for various things, to include checking out the flexibility of a wood species.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Rx_For_Bending_Wood.html

http://www.connectedlines.com/wood/wood06.htm

The second URL is a link to the characteristics of ash, but other wood species can be selected by clicking the link of the species in question on the left. Not all species are listed though - poplar isn't on the list, for instance.

Just about any wood can me bent during the lamination process, provided you re-saw it thin enough. I think that's probably the way I'll end up going - we'll just have to wait and see...
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Postby myoung » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:30 pm

Dusty82 wrote:Heh - funny you should mention dimensions. I didn't really think about just how big this son of a gun is going to be until I started double checking to answer your question. This is gonna be a big bugger. It certainly doesn't qualify as a TTT anymore...


A TTT sounds like it should be about size, but I'd rather think of it as being about spirit, imagination, individuality, and ingenuity to pick a few words that describe the distinction between TDs and TTTs and the commercial, mostly boring, boxes that pass for recreational vehicles. So, with this in mind, yours is certainly within the boundaries of a TTT in my book. Bravo.
:thumbsup:
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Postby mezmo » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:14 am

I second myoung's sentiments!

I would add 'uniqueness' as well to his string of adjectives.

I'd also say to keep your proportions as they are. They look
great. Adjusting them to fit some arbitrary "ideal" won't do
much but compromise what you want. Since you have no plans
to garage it, height - with-in reason, and your design meets that -
is not a major concern, as long as it is road legal. Have you
seen the height of some new 5th Wheels?! Your height is short
in comparison!

Cheers,
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Postby myoung » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:20 am

mezmo wrote:I would add 'uniqueness' as well to his string of adjectives.


Adjectives are nice, but I thought I was listing a string of nouns.
:thinking: :)
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Postby Dusty82 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:00 pm

Adjectives or nouns, thanks for them! I mean, as long as they're not 4-letter ones, I'll happily take them. :lol:

Ok, call me one of those people who thought that the TTT designation was about size (maybe it's a guy thing.) I really thought that it had to be under 12' long to be considered a TTT. I love your description, though, Mike.

I'm rather blown away by how fast this design has come together, along with my wife's genuine excitement about the whole thing. I mean getting her to help me pick out colors and materials for the pop-up I'm working on has been like pulling teeth. She dove into this design with just as much enthusiasm as I did - scary, really...

I still have lots of questions, and I'll be looking for answers as soon as I figure out what the questions really are. :) Right now I'm still in the "feasibility study" portion of the whole deal, and I'll have to admit, it's looking very good. Proof of concept is next - as soon as I get a nice long stretch of good weather for it, that is.

And Doug, about my computer design skills. I'm winging it. I heard a lot about Google Sketch Up from woodworking buddies, and downloaded a copy. I downloaded and watched every tutorial video I can find, and refer to them often. Sketch Up has such a gentle learning curve, even a mope like me can use it. I give all the credit to the program and its designers. I've been using it for about 9 months, and what you see here is the result of just playing with it, making simple drawings, and practicing with it ever since. Literally anyone can use this program with a little bit of practice.

Give me something like AutoCad and I'm like a caveman with a calculator - so lost, I just want to take a club to it... :lol:
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RE: ...Sheep Wagon

Postby mezmo » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:30 am

Hey Mike/myoung,

Picky, Picky, Picky! -- Ha!!! I plead the early[late]
hour of my posting [4:14am]. I meant to say "Qualities".
How it turned out as "adjectives" shall always remain a mystery!

Hey Dusty82,

It's great to hear the whole household is enthused! It should make
the build a cherished event. [Once it's over with of course.]

Your success with Sketch Up has me thinking of looking into it further,
especially if it can give you final measurements off the final design.
It is a great visual aide in the least.

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo
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Postby Dusty82 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:39 pm

Not to turn this into an advertisement for Sketch Up or anything, but if you draw it right and have the right add-ons and plug-ins, you can generate a cut list to print out and cut each individual part out from it. I've only done that once with a cabinet base I drew up for the kitchen, but it did work.

I'm serious when I say it's really very easy to learn. I just downloaded it and started watching the video tutorials online. I wound up downloading them so that I could refer to them easier when I'm using the program. I still refer to them a lot, and there's a lot I still don't know, but I can usually make it through a project.

One of the things I'm doing with it is drawing up some Gustav Stickley furniture designs in it. My wife got me this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Making-Authentic- ... 269&sr=8-3

...and I've been slowly drawing each piece in Sketch Up. It's given me a lot of practice. I have yet to build any of the Stickley pieces, but having them in a format that's easy to navigate through makes it more likely that I will one day.
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Postby SmilinJack » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:27 am

I've been following this thread closely and researching sheepherder wagons as I too would like to build one. I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but for those who may be considering building a sheepherder wagon and don't want to use a real stove, here's an idea that I came across:

http://www.idahosheepcamp.com/cabinet_l ... ders_stove

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programing...
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Postby Dusty82 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:16 pm

Thanks for posting that link. I saw that when I was first looking into sheep wagons and showed it to DW. Her reply was, "Nice try. I want the real wood stove." So, my course was set.

I had been looking into the sheet metal sheepherder's stoves vs this cast iron stove we have. Once I saw the price I backed off. I figure since we already have this one (it came with the house and we replaced it with a pellet stove in 2006) I save that expense. I'm not doing anything else with it anyway, so...

Still, it's a neat option for those who are a bit nervous about having a coal/wood burner in a trailer.
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