Mimimalism

Did you just design your very own teardrop or tiny trailer? Want to discuss it? Here's the place to post your design for discussion!

Postby Red in Texas » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:22 am

Hey, this has been an interesting thread. All sorts of ideas.

We always had to keep a cnadle and heavy sleeping bag in our trucks when I drove in Europe, just in case we broke down many hours from rescue. The candle sucked, mostly provided light in that uninsulated truck cab, but the sleeping bag was sure fire way to keep from freezing to death.

As far as heat loss in cold weather situations, I'd say if you're in the artic you're pretty much screwed, but down south here, there's nothing that a good sleeping bag won't take care of. Some of those things are rated to sub zero temps with only your body providing the heat source to keep it warm. I know my Army cold weather bag kept me warm in freezing conditions to many times to count and I'd rely on it under any weather conditions on this continent. But the good news is they've gotten even better in the last few years. Besides, if it got so cold that you need an external heat source you could always revert to the simplest technology of all......build a fire outside your teardrop and warm up. They've been using that trick for countless centuries. It's low tech but reliable.

Concerning water purification, while there are devices that remove suspended solids from ditch water, the issue of bacteria must be addressed. Boiling in conjunction with chlorine tablets ought to kill anything in your water. There aren't many organisms that can survive chlorine, and I'd bet no water borne bugs can live through a dose of it. Do a google search on Chlorine or Bleach to find out what it kills and you'll be amazed. It's why hospitals still use it in cleaning up around their bacteria infested place. The armies of the modern world have been passing out chlorine tabs to drop into suspect water for many, many years to troops that live in much rougher conditions than a teardrop will take you. They are dirt cheep, store indefinitely, and come in lightweight single use portions. No messy measuring needed. :)

Why re-invent the wheel? Use Uncle Sugars tried and true military technology researched and paid for with your tax dollars. Sleeping bags and Chlorine tabs are the answers to cold weather survival and potable water.
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Postby GeorgeTelford » Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:55 pm

Hi Red

The Nature pure filter I have takes out everything, even Chlorine taste if you use tabs as a belt and braces approach, which is good.

Best sleeping bag was the German Army one, it was fantastic drop the feet out and do stag duty without even getting out of your sleeping bag !!

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http://www.fatiguesarmynavy.com/store/item/GE2002
http://www.campingandcamo.co.uk/ishop/9 ... cr566.html
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Postby Red in Texas » Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:59 pm

I had a brother-in-law who worked in German Army supply. I got to try about everything the Bundeswehr troops used at one time or another. I like their bags well enough, but nothing comes close to the new system the American military has come up with. Heavy sleeping bag, a light liner for less extreme conditions and a gore-tex covering to keep it all dry and windproof. Amazing stuff, with an equally amazing price tag. :shock:

Where the Bundeswehr shined, imo, were their fur lined boots. While Herman Survivors were good stuff, in a German winter NOTHING came close to providing the toasty warmth of a good set of German boots. GI's were always trying to score a pair of German boots for those cold nights out on guard duty in the field.

I've still got two full duffel bags of military gear which I update from time to time. I'm not sure if the miltary made me paranoid or just better prepared, but with the exception of 3rd gen night vision (which is coming soon) and a .50 cal rifle, I've got just about everything I need. I moved out of Dallas almost 5 years ago to a very rural region to take care of my biggest worry....too damn many people in one spot. :)
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Postby dacrazyrn » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:40 pm

Red in Texas wrote:I had a brother-in-law who worked in German Army supply. I got to try about everything the Bundeswehr troops used at one time or another. I like their bags well enough, but nothing comes close to the new system the American military has come up with. Heavy sleeping bag, a light liner for less extreme conditions and a gore-tex covering to keep it all dry and windproof. Amazing stuff, with an equally amazing price tag. :shock:

Ahhhh....Wiggy's bags! My ex-uncle in-law. At least he makes the bags, etc. for the Seals. Great stuff. I got lucky and got a hold of a "walking" sleeping bag (is a HUGE PUFFY extreme weather winter coat-sorta like this) and a pair of extreme weather snow pants, before my aunt got a divorce. Those stay stowed in the trucks toolbox in compression sacks for those emegency situtions.
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Postby BufordT » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:31 pm

mikeschn wrote:How about one of these cute little woodburners? You can't believe how small they are. I had to get in the picture so you could see. It can't be more than a foot high!!! TINY!!!

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Mike...


Mike where did you find that stove?

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Postby mikeschn » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:38 pm

I found that at the Henry Ford Mueseum...

Here's another option you might consider...

Somewhere on this site they talk about building a wood burning stove from readily available materials.. I can't find it right now, dinner is on the table... but it's there...

http://www.madhousers.org/develop.shtml

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Postby mikeschn » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:53 pm

Okay dinner is done... and I found the stove...

http://www.madhousers.org/stove.shtml

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Postby BufordT » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:54 pm

I found it. Made out of 5 gallon metal buckets.

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Postby MarkP » Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:55 am

First an observation:

Mountain climbers sleep in tents half way up Mount Everest without any extra sources of heat, relying only on very good sleeping bags. I myself have slept in cars in sub-zero weather relying on sleeping bags/blankets/clothes. What it comes down to is protection from wind and rain + adequate sleeping attire = survival. If a tent can provide adequate protection on Mt Everest in a storm then even the worst built trailer will too. If you are talking survival there is no need to fool around with any extra and possibly dangerous sources of heat but there is no substitute for a good sleeping bag. Now if you want overall comfort, convenience, and unfrozen water pipes that is another matter.

Heat transfer is frequently misunderstood or made more complicated than it is. Think of heat energy as though it were water. Heat energy wants to go from higher temperature to lower temperature. Water wants to go from higher water level to lower water level. The amount of heat energy in an enclosed space determines the temperature level. The amount of water in a bucket determines the water level. To raise the temperature in a room you have to add heat and to raise the level in a bucket you must add water. Big rooms/buckets require that more stuff be added to get the same rise in level than do small rooms/buckets. As soon as you raise the level inside higher than it is outside, the stuff wants to go from high to low and get back out. The bigger the difference in level between inside and outside, the faster the stuff leaks out. Here is where the analogy breaks down a bit. You can have a watertight bucket that doesn't leak, but there is no such thing as a perfect insulator. You will always have heat leaking out in the winter and in in the summer.

Back to the analogy - a trailer is like a leaky bucket. You can maintain any level you want as long as you replace what leaks out as fast as it leaks out. The higher the level inside or the lower the level outside, the faster the stuff (heat, water, whatever) will leak out because the difference in level between the inside and the outside will be greater. I have to say that this analogy works especially well for conduction. Some principles apply to convection and radiation as well. In order to maintain the level, you must replace what leaks out. The bigger the difference between inside and outside, the faster the leakage. Big and small buckets may have the same level but it takes longer to fill or refill a large bucket by one inch than a small one and the same for heating a trailer up one degree. If you want to maintain an extravagently warm atmosphere in your trailer in which you can cavort naked you will pay for it. You will pay for it less if you reduce the leakage to a minimum. Leakage is evil. Ventilation is good. Ventilatin is leakage. Bummer.

If you add heat to a space faster than it leaks out, the temperature will go up. If you give off 250 btu/hr all night long and when you wake up you are the same temperature as when you went to bed, then 250 btu/hr leaked out of the sleeping bag and into the trailer all night long, otherwise you would cook. Cook is an exageration. You would only be 10 to 15 degrees F hotter over 8 hrs but you get the idea. Because the sleeping bag has a small surface area and a high insulation value, the temperature increases untill it is nice and toasty inside the bag. By then the heat is fighting it's way out of the sleeping bag into the trailer as fast as it is leaking out of you into the sleeping bag. It will eventually leak out of the trailer into the great outdoors at the same rate but it doesn't have to be nearly as warm in the trailer to get that to happen because the trailer is much leakier than the sleeping bag.

A certain minimum amount of leakage of heat to the outdoors is unavoidable because a minimum amount of ventilation is essential. How you accomplish that ventilation can make a big difference. Carbon Monoxide bonds to hemoglobin better than oxygen does so even a low concentration can eventually kill you if you stay in it long enough. If you have an open flame in the trailer with you that CO will be mixing with all the good air and giving you a tiny little dose. To really dilute that dose would require a lot of ventilation, which would be inefficient and ultimately ineffective. It is far better to have a direct vented source of heat that ejects the CO laden exhaust right outside, or have the fire itself outside. It is so much better an idea that we who clearly enjoy a design challange should relish this opportunity to exercise our skills by designing or finding and implementing such systems. Commercial systems exist that burn propane and they are the way to go for all but the most adventurous/industrious/skilled/etc. A properly designed wood stove could work but it would have to be tiny and you would have to get it right because otherwise it would kill you. How about a hot water heating system that forces water through rubber hoses to a copper coil that you lay in the campfire outside? It would be inefficient but if there is ample fuel at the right price, who cares? Or just get a good sleeping bag.

Personally I love the idea of a tiny wood stove in a trailer even though it is kind of ridiculous.
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Postby Laredo » Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:52 pm

Anything is possible. In dorms with rules against cooking, an iron (electric) and a couple of bricks (or 2x scraps) creates a makeshift hotplate. With that you can cook anything you can buy in a can or make with hot water.

Remember Easy-Bake ovens? Kids used to cook with 75 or 100 watt light bulbs.

Bake pies and cakes. Okay, small ones, but still.

So in theory a 60 watt light bulb could keep a trailer warm.
But so would, more efficiently, an electric blanket. If the problem is shore power or the lack thereof, neither of these solutions will work.

Two people in a 5x9x4 space will probably adequately warm it and more than adequately moisten the air to produce condensation enough for interior rain.
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Postby luluyug » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:38 pm

if you want a lot off heat without any carbon monoxide i use a zodi heathing system it gives lot of heat and i ve tested it with a co detector and it never went into alarm mode (my corner garage used to call me to ask me why it always went off when they were working on my van...)
the only problem whit the zodi is it is sensible to wind over 10 miles an hour so i gess it would not be very practical in the middle of a windy desert .
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Re: Mimimalism

Postby Prem » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:46 pm

Indian heating: You get a metal pan or pail and fill it with the hot rocks that ring your fire pit where you are camping. You take it into your trailer. No CO2, no oxygen depletion, no wood mess or the bugs that crawl out of the firewood. :beer:

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P.S. Minimalism? When I travel by plane, train or bus, this is all I take, even for a month in Mexico:
http://www.blackbirdballard.com/Images/Products/67435_2.jpg (Has shoulder straps too.)
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Re: Mimimalism

Postby Junkboy999 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:47 pm

Although this is an old thread it still has some nice points. Mark P post, 4 up, is a nice read. It still gets
me thinking I can use a coleman lantern in an enclosed outside container with an heat exchanger setup
for heat for a few hours.
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Re: Mimimalism

Postby RandyG » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:07 pm

I want to make a stove from an ammo can. You can build it as simple or complex as you want. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1wTzqVHUQU
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Re: Mimimalism

Postby Greg M » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:20 am

Prem wrote:P.S. Minimalism? When I travel by plane, train or bus, this is all I take, even for a month in Mexico:
http://www.blackbirdballard.com/Images/Products/67435_2.jpg (Has shoulder straps too.)


So, what's in there? Your toothbrush and a big bundle of cash?

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