120V submersible pump experiment. Is it safe???

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Paul

Yes its the same the world over BUT they do rot thru and often blow the fuse or mcb or RCD, water and mains do mix fairly safely if set up right is my point.

Geo

[PaulC]

Hi Paul

Yes its the same the world over BUT they do rot thru and often blow the fuse or mcb or RCD, water and mains do mix fairly safely if set up right is my point.

Geo

George, Thanks for that. The frustrating thing for me is that it would be a lot easier if most realised their limitations. If I was going to have mains power in my trailer I would be looking for an expert to come in and wire it for me. In the long run this would probably work out better than trying to figure it out myself. I'll do most things but if it has the potential to kill I'm going to leave it to the experts.
Cheers
Paul

[Miriam C.]

My plumber refused to go under my house because we had standing water. I would not do so either. We have a fairly new house and it is bult to a fairly strict code. It's just my opinion, the opinion of my plumber, the opinion of my electrician and my husband.

I do not put a live wire in my loo and I personally do a yearly inspection of the exposed wiring. Yes we could get a leak and yes a squirrel could chew the wires. That is my point, stuff happens. I live here. If I could do it better I would.

Thanks Paul!
Have a happy.

[Boodro]

Hey Jim , I agree !

How many people wouild stop driving their car if they knew almost all of them had a submersible pump in the GAS TANK! AAAAAHHHHH ! Look out chicken Little!

[PaulC]

George, Putting it all up front. I apologise if you have taken offence at my blunt attitude. The differences of opinion, that you have so graciously pointed out in your last post, have been bought about by the fact that you seem to stress that mains power is the big bad boogie that will kill at every opportunity. You then decide to suggest that the risk is minimal and that it is unlikely to ever happen. How are the general Members of this board supposed to make an informed decision when the man who jumps in to answer any post on mains power is capable of making such contradictory statements. I am quite prepared to let sleeping dogs lie in most cases but, I'm Sorry to say, past history does not let me pass your posts without questioning it.
Cheers
Paul

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Paul

In the other posts I stress safe practice and that mains can kill especially if you ignore the basics (which some people seemed to suggest was OK in the other thread) so in the other thread I point out the dangers of doing it wrong and in this thread say its pretty damn safe if you do it right

There is no contradiction in stressing the Dangers of doing things wrong, with the fact that electricity is pretty safe if you do things right.

In this thread I have said that I would still go for a 12v Pump, but I do not dismiss the mains pump outright as dangerous either, treated correctly it will be pretty damned safe.

I say pretty safe because no matter what you do there are always risks, its just like crossing the road, cross properly and you will be safe, keep walking out without looking and pretty soon you could end up dead.

See what I mean

Regards

George

[PaulC]

Cheers George, You also pointed out in this thread that the risk is minimal. Other members of the forum will be reading this and, like me, are probably trying to figure out where they stand. After all, the talk of grounding etc has been raised just like in the other threads. If we are to make generalised statements I would suggest that it is done in such a way as not to confuse.
Cheers
Paul

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Paul

I have made clear statement's on earthing the Chassis, do it!! no if's or but's, there is no confusion in my posts about it at all.

Likewise in this thread, you can use a submersible mains pump if you want to, wired correctly your tear will be as safe as can be. I cannot see one contradictory item in either.

The original question was can 120v Sub pump is it safe? the answer wired correctly yes (but of course nothing is totally risk free, but its not inherently dangerous either)

Is a 12v Pump safer? yes of course, but that was never in doubt or even questioned.

[Jiminsav]

In all modern autos..there is a 12 volt, high pressure, fuel pump in the tank..when your car quits running, or won't start one morning..open the door..lean down and turn the key to run..you should hear a whirling sound..no sound..no gas..

In the aviation industry, they use 120 volt, 400 cycle submersible pumps in the gas tanks..i've only seen one blow up, and that was a 747 over new york..or so they think..personally, i don't think that even if the wires chaff, and arch in the tank, their isn't enough oxigen inside a tank to make it explosive..I think it was Al jihad stuff...yeah, thats it..

sooo, whats this rant mean..it means it don't matter..if it says SUBMERSIBLE, well, it's made to run under water..sheesh

[Miriam C.]

Dear,Jim, Paul, George, Boodro others
My sense of humor has no place here so please excuse it's loss.

Unless I totally read Endo's post wrong, this is a fountain pump. It is intended to circulate water in a fountain. I am willing to bet it has a disclaimer on it to not stand with your hands or other body parts emmersed.

George I have tried to agree with you this whole post, you don't read it because you are not seeing that the words grounded and earthed are the same. In "Electrical " you agreed to test the power plug being used to be sure it is earthed. I will not disrespect you on this forum and I would appreciate it if you would try to do the same.

You are not an electrician in America. I don't have electricial experience with 12v. My husband who read this thread and walked off shaking his head has over 30 years in the wholesale electrical business. He knows our code inside and out. He has been to every school to update his knowledge every manufacturer he sells for offers. He is the person they call when the electrician needs a fix or to find a way to make something work. He is also qualified on PLC's. I won't give you his full resume because you will not recognise half or what is on there. He does not argue with anyone because he is sueable. I am not and I have not represented myself as an expert but I do know if you use anything with electricity in a way it was not intended on a source you have not checked you will someday be a nominee for the Darvin award.

You are not an expert and you have told people there is no danger in using something for which you have not seen nor read the first thing on. That should be enough for anyone to heed the advice of the "Electrical code" and read the package directions.

Harbor Freight has a technical help sect. Please call and ask before you use this pump.

The risk for any 120v pump immersed to pump water to the sink is small unless it has a short or the campground is not correctly grounded. Unless someone digs up what they think is an expensive piece of 8 foot copper and sells it. (It is copper clad steel for those who didn't know.)

You don't get "do overs" with 120ac. You die and dieing ain't living.

FYI I will not hook my gas tank to a campground outlet. It has a 12v dc pump and is in a vaccume.

Also: When I said I would not drop a live wire down a loo, everyone missed it. The loo is ceramic one of the best insulators of electricity. You will still die if you Pi$$ in it.

Reguards

[Endo]

Unless I totally read Endo's post wrong, this is a fountain pump. It is intended to circulate water in a fountain. I am willing to bet it has a disclaimer on it to not stand with your hands or other body parts emmersed.

Here is a link to the pump.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45303

It states it can be used with tile saws that require a wet blade. Your hands are directly in contact with the water when cutting with a tile saw. That is why I felt this may be an option to use. I wouldn't think it would state this as one of the uses if it wasn't safe, but I still wasn't sure so that is why I posted it to begin with.

So what do you think???

[Miriam C.]

I saw a 120V submersible fountain pump on sale at HF.
So I "invested" the $4.99 into it for a little experiment

.

states it can be used with tile saws that require a wet blade. Your hands are directly in contact with the water when cutting with a tile saw. That is why I felt this may be an option to use. I wouldn't think it would state this as one of the uses if it wasn't safe, but I still wasn't sure so that is why I posted it to begin with.

All the difference in the world. I stand corrected, for this pump. Wonder if Mike would accept it?

Add on. If the source of power is grounded. (sorry)

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Miriam

There are not many other ways that I can say this.

If the tear is wired correctly, you have tested the supply, all conductive material is bonded to the earth/ground wire within the tear and it has a working RCD, you will be as safe as can be.

As Jimsav says its a Submersible pump, Endo confirmed its use as a tile saw pump (and your hands get wet using that)

If you have tested the supply and your Tear is wired correctly, how can it kill anyone? Please put forward a possible scenario....

I have not said there is no danger at all, everything as risks, correctly managed those risks are so small as to be negligable, otherwise we would not have electricity in the home we would have to stick to 12v in the house then, as it is less risky do you see my point?

If the tear were wired correctly and the supply tested before hook up, I would be happy to stick my hand under the tap even if I knew the pump was cracked open, why? because the RCD would cut it out IF the MCB had not tripped first. (with proper earthing, the RCD would trip before any water even dispensed)

BTW

I will not disrespect you on this forum and I would appreciate it if you would try to do the same.

Have I been disrespectful? If I have its unintentional and I apologise unreservedly (please let me know by PM, quoting the disrespectful part and I will sort asap)

[GeorgeTelford]

Miriam

Sorry, crossed posts, your post wasnt there, when I wrote the last post

[Jiminsav]

you know George..them Georgia Girls are "hard headed"..I know..i married one..