Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

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Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby NotJammer » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:59 pm

I know my power loads sorta. Real life is always more. Here's what I want to do.

Run an Engel refrigerator. It claims max 12 VDC 50 watts.

Atwood 16K Propane furnace. They claim 4o watts, let's round up to another 12 VDC 50 watts

Fantastic Fan on low 12 VDC 20 watts.

Couple 12 VDC interior lamps. 10 watts.

Charge an iPhone?

Run small Multiband radio?

Let's say 150 watts, but that's not all day except the fridge. It runs 2 minutes on and 6 off inside my home. Testing it for a month right now.

I am asking for suggestions on battery sizes and type. Charger Inverter. Brands and sources are helpful. I do know wiring.

The trailer has 120 VAC shore power wiring installed. I will use a Honda EU1000i as needed.

No Solar this year, not in the budget. Next year when it costs double... :twisted:
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Re: Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby Socal Tom » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:43 pm

A fridge in fridge mode uses 8 to 10 Ah per hour of run time ( I assumed 24 hour run time)
The furnace will use about 5 Ah per hour of run time ( probably less because the fan is the big power draw.)( I assumed 12 hours of run time)
I assumed the lights were 10 amps each ( switch to LED and make it 3 each) ( I assumed 9 hours each)
I assumed that you either ran the furnace or the fantastic fan, not both so I didn't include the fan in the calculations.

I have a spreadsheet that calculated this would be over 1000 watts-hours ( 72.5Ah) per day. You would need a battery capacity of over 145 Amp hours to make it 24 hours using the 50% rule.

If I assume that the Fan in the furnace only runs 50% of the time, then it drops to a 100Ah battery.

I'm assuming you are building a CTC, since a furnace like that would be way overkill in a TD. My suggestion for batteries would be a pair of the GC2 golf cart batteries, they would get you 215Ah@12V.

For charging from the EI1000i, a converter/charger like the Progressive Dynamics reports that their Power centers with the "Charge Wizard" will recharge a battery to 90% in 2 to 3 hours. 100% takes about 15 hours. If you get one with at least 45 amps like the PD 4045 then you will probably be ok, but plan on running the generator daily for at least 3 hours a day. Once you get back to AC you should leave it plugged in at least 15 hours at least monthly to keep the batteries maintained.
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Re: Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby John61CT » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:35 pm

You need to estimate hours per day, get a total AH per 24 hours.

Fridge in moderate conditions will be 40-50AH more when very hot or if used as a freezer.

I'd say start with 2 pair Duracell (Deka) 6V GCs, Batteries+ or Sam's Club. About 400AH.

You should get at least 100w solar to finish the last 4-5 hours charging no way worth using a genny for that.

Unless you can get it on shore power a few overnights per week.
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Re: Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby NotJammer » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:26 pm

I should have added. I will be on shore power often. This is not for 6 weeks in the Mohave which I have done with a VW bus, lawn chair, and ice blocks. A long time ago. California is not the place I wanna be. Sung to the Beverly Hillbillies theme song. 8)

You guys have given me some guidance. Thanks a lot!


I am doing a CTC. viewtopic.php?f=42&t=69654

I'll watch my batteries very carefully, I don't like wasting anything. I hate buying anything twice except food.

I camp in the Midwest from the Canadian border to Missouri. I go where the weather takes me.

If I ever Full Time again it's South Texas for winter with a hookup.

Thanks again!
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Re: Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby tony.latham » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:05 pm

You need to estimate hours per day, get a total AH per 24 hours.


I concur. Here's an Ohms Law calculator that will give you the amps.

http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator

It takes about 4 amps to charge an iPhone.

Tony
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Re: Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby John61CT » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:49 am

Then you only need enough AH to prevent you going below 50% too often between overnight mains power recharges.

If your average DoD turns out to be 20-30% a good bank will last many years.

And you don't want to add new batts to an old bank later, so maybe hold off on the genny completely for now if budget is an issue.

Conservation is the best value, minimize use of any inverters.
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Re: Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby NotJammer » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:39 pm

John61CT wrote:Then you only need enough AH to prevent you going below 50% too often between overnight mains power recharges.

If your average DoD turns out to be 20-30% a good bank will last many years.

And you don't want to add new batts to an old bank later, so maybe hold off on the genny completely for now if budget is an issue.

Conservation is the best value, minimize use of any inverters.


thinking about this, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F8MC440/re ... 5849326509

I agree every conversion eats energy. I wonder about making a 12 vdc direct to 5 vdc charger for USB stuff. 12vdc to 120 vac to 5 vdc is just stupid. Must be something off the shelf.

As for the Honda EU1000i I have been using it for 23 years. It's so quiet most people never hear it at all.

I know we can't mix battery types or ages.

Been looking at 2017 F150 trailer connector wiring. Seems Ford used small wire during their lose every ounce campaign. My model is 700 lbs lighter than a 2014. I need to run a larger wire from the F150 battery to the trailer and isolate it. Ground wire too.

I have a DIY 1 gauge welding wire 30 ft battery jumper kit I made some time ago. Quick connect to my TV battery and can jump-start a car behind it.

Soon it will be Summer.
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Re: Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby John61CT » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:04 pm

NotJammer wrote: I wonder about making a 12 vdc direct to 5 vdc charger for USB stuff. Must be something off the shelf.
Tons, I'd use a marine twistloc version ciggie port with dual flush-mount USB outlet inserted.

Some include a little voltmeter.
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Re: Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby John61CT » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:12 pm

Yes PowerMax PMBC line is good, just check the voltage setpoint is user adjustable.

The 75A one's likely not much more if you shop around, if you go to a higher -CAR bank in future, bigger the better.

Banks are consumables, infrastructure like charger should likely last decades.
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Re: Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby NotJammer » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:41 pm

John61CT wrote:Yes PowerMax PMBC line is good, just check the voltage setpoint is user adjustable.

The 75A one's likely not much more if you shop around, if you go to a higher -CAR bank in future, bigger the better.

Banks are consumables, infrastructure like charger should likely last decades.



Thanks! I will consider going 75 amp with that brand.

I know all DIY projects evolve as we go. I want my major bits good enough to last, adaptable to the future I don't know yet. Mission creep.

Buy quality first and cry less.
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Re: Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby Socal Tom » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:21 pm

NotJammer wrote:
John61CT wrote:Then you only need enough AH to prevent you going below 50% too often between overnight mains power recharges.

If your average DoD turns out to be 20-30% a good bank will last many years.

And you don't want to add new batts to an old bank later, so maybe hold off on the genny completely for now if budget is an issue.

Conservation is the best value, minimize use of any inverters.


thinking about this, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F8MC440/re ... 5849326509

I agree every conversion eats energy. I wonder about making a 12 vdc direct to 5 vdc charger for USB stuff. 12vdc to 120 vac to 5 vdc is just stupid. Must be something off the shelf.

As for the Honda EU1000i I have been using it for 23 years. It's so quiet most people never hear it at all.

I know we can't mix battery types or ages.

Been looking at 2017 F150 trailer connector wiring. Seems Ford used small wire during their lose every ounce campaign. My model is 700 lbs lighter than a 2014. I need to run a larger wire from the F150 battery to the trailer and isolate it. Ground wire too.

I have a DIY 1 gauge welding wire 30 ft battery jumper kit I made some time ago. Quick connect to my TV battery and can jump-start a car behind it.

Soon it will be Summer.


I use this for my converter/charger
https://smile.amazon.com/Progressive-Dy ... er+charger
and this for USB charging
https://smile.amazon.com/Cllena-Functio ... 12v+outlet
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Re: Battery & Battery charger Inverter sizing?

Postby NotJammer » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:01 pm

Those look good. I put em in a list. Thanks!

I'm one paycheck at a time. That stuff will be April. Batteries early June. Then hit the road for a bit.
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