Battery Advice

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi

Optima will last longer in abusive situation (I Think I already mentioned that) by abusive I mean poor charging By poor charging I mean alternator and no stage chargers also not recharging in a timely manner, so basically its a like breeding a dog that you can kick without injuring it, but heh why not just try NOT kicking the dog?

Lead acid batteries have and still are used in very extreme bumpy and vibrated enviroments and survive with no problems.

There are certain extreme conditions where a gel battery would be better BUT None of them exist in a tear. BTW the optima is a lead acid battery hence it can use any charger, with spiral plates it can release big power very qickly (Great for a starterbattery) it has recombinent properties to absorb the gasses.

Q You summed it up pretty well, except On the gasses thing, batteries can be boiled (which steams off the electrolyte) but this is cause by excessive voltage or thermal runaway (thermal runaway is generally caused by a bad cell, this can happen with anby battery topology)) all batteries (the ones we are talking about) produce power by electrochemical reaction, when charging (even normal charging) it will produce gas, it must, charging cannot occur with the gas being produced, difference is in how its handled.
With gel batteries you must keep the charging low otherwise you ruin the gel, with lead acid its not that great an amount and even with a vented battery. How many times have you had to top your car battery up? If like most people None, ponder that for a while cant be losing a lot can it?

The Optima is a good quality battery, its expensive though and it does not seem to possess any benefit that is must have for a tear

So it will last longer with a poor charger, duh get a decent charger and battery cheaper than the Optima (in fact have enough spare to buy spare/replacement batteries)

Coop, one other thing

Yes, I do enjoy the ability to charge fairly quickly and the discharge is LLLLOOONNNGGG.

Discharge length is measured in Ah,an ah from Optima is exctly the same length as an ah from any other battery, the battery you have is (according to the optima site) only a 41 amp hour battery, any group 24 has twice the Amp hours, hmmmm but if its half the amp hours would that not charge up twice as quickly........

Forget anything with Ni in it, ie Nimh Nicad excetera as deep cycle batteries tottally unsuitable.

[Loader]

Thanks for all the info George.

[Guy]

I can vouch for the roads Coop drives his tear on. I took a wrong turn last weekend to his place and drove six miles on those roads instead of the 1/2 mile a normal person would have.

[mikeschn]

George,

Can you take Guy's list of six batteries and rank them for me?

Also, what battery are you using in your huge battery bank?

Mike...

Here are six Battery Manufacturers well known and highly respected in the RV world.

Lifeline Batteries Inc. http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/
AC Delco
Trojan Batteries http://www.trojan-battery.com/
Interstate Batteries of America http://www.ibsa.com/estore/default.asp
Optima Batteries Inc. http://www.optimabatteries.com/
GNB Technologies Inc. http://www.gnb.com/

Here is a link to the popular website for Poop Sheetsx by Phred http://www.phrannie.org/phredex.html

You will see from these links that the most highly rated battery for bang for the buck are the six volt golf cart batteries which are true deep cycle, unlike the "deep Cycle" marine batteries or the hybrid marine batteries like the one posted above.

[Loader]

In addition to Mike's request, what about the Deltran unit, is the 6 amp model the best way to go? I would guess it would be based on what normal draw is for each trailer, and use a tender to keep ahead of the load. Am I even close?

Thanks!!

[Guy]

Here is and article comparing and discussing all major battery types










Edit: All fixed up! Mike....

[Guy]

Dear Mike or anyone else,

I was having trouble shrinking those png files to fit the page.

Please fix if possible

[GeorgeTelford]

The list guy used is good to a point, Unfortunately it all falls down due to the writer taking the cycles that the manufacturer claims as real, Over and over its been proven that gells do not last as claimed.

AGM's are good if you have bad charging and dont look after your batteries, If you do charge well and look after your batteries you wont see a great increase in life, if you have always treated your batteries badly they will seem like miracle batteries...........

Medium to low price Standard lead acid with a good charger, cost low life expectancy great, but even if it were a year or two less than the best, they would still win hands down as they are many times cheaper in some cases you could buy three replacements and still not have spend as much as if you had bought a gimmick battery.

Its hard to rate foriegn batteries but I know from friends that Hawker are good, Optima are good (even though expensive)

Gel are a waste of money and no benefit (for teardrops) slow charging, short life, overpriced.

[mikeschn]

So George,

Can you rank those batteries for us?

Mike...

[bdosborn]

Mike,

This site has a good comparison of cost versus life for batteries. It also explains the difference between the different types. Its as close to your chart as I think you'll find.

http://gerry.vanagon.com/files/technica ... attery.txt

For me, being the cheap SOB I am, I went wih the lowest lifetime cost/AH. FWIW, the warranty for batteries in large UPSs we design around is 5 years for VRLA and 10 years for flooded cell. Neither type will ever last as long as the warranty under normal use (hence the typical pro rated warranty ) but it was a good indicator to me that a flooded cell would last longer.
Bruce

[cracker39]

Bruce,

That article sas the most information about batteries that I've read yet. It covered nearly everything and cleared up the ratings for batteries, converting all of the CCAs, MCAs, SHs, RCs into math that I can understand. It touched on charging, but I wonder why it didn't discuss how multi-stage chargers take care of the correct charging and maintenance problem. I've already learned how that's done, but, for someone who didn't know, it would have been helpful if the article covered it.

The bottom line is that for my camping style, which will usually be with shore power, and hardly ever for more than a 2-3 days and nights at a time, probably no more than 6-8 outings a year, the LA battery will meet my needs...Low initial cost and providing the amps I will need for an outing. If I ever do have an extened outing, It will most likely be where I am traveling and staying at campgrounds with shore power.

I'm not a cheap SOB (I'm just FRUGAL...hmmm...that is being a cheap SOB isn't it?). So, I will buy a group 27 LA battery. Adding a B&D 6/4/2 amp 3-stage charger (from WM at 28 bucks), I'll have a relatively inexpensive 12V system that will provide all of the power I'll need.

Regarding the Everstart, I've checked and found information the states that Delphi, Exide, and Johsno Controls, all make different models of Everstart batteries for WM. I've read good and bad reports about them. I also read a thread on a forum where the poster bought two golf cart batteries from Sams for $46 apiece. Looking at the chart in the above article, that seems to be the most cost effective solution as GC batteries are supposed to be the longest lasting. Sop, I'm still deciding on which LA deep cycle battery to buy.

[bdosborn]

<snip> So, I will buy a group 27 LA battery. Adding a B&D 6/4/2 amp 3-stage charger (from WM at 28 bucks), I'll have a relatively inexpensive 12V system that will provide all of the power I'll need. <snip>

Dale,

Thats what I did. Our battery is a Trojan 27TMX 12V. The only reason I went with Trojan is I kept seeing them in in commercial equipment like pallet movers, floor sweepers and golf carts so I figured they must not be too bad. The battery is in the tongue box and I made sure there was enough room for two Trojan T-105s if the one battery wasn't big enough. So far the battery has had plenty of capacity so I doubt we'll ever move up to two batteries.

I've gone through three battery chargers though. I went the WM route at first and it crapped out just floating the battery. The second charger ( Minn Kota ) died when I turned on a fluorescent light with the battery disconnected. The Promariner has worked very well since last July.
Bruce

[len19070]

I use, and have always used a straight Group #24 or #27 Interstate Deep Cycle battery. I recharge it via a charge line from my tow vehicle, Check the water level twice a year and that's it. They have never left me dead even after a week out. If it would all I'd have to do is plug it into the tow vehicle and run it for a while. With this "sink or swim maintenance program" I get 5 + years out of a battery.

If your buying new, the one Deep Cycle battery I would stay away from, EVEN though they will work is a Marine Deep Cycle Starting Battery. This battery has a feature on it you do not need, "Starting" and to get that it sacrifices the efficiency of a feature you do need, long slow discharge. The plates on this battery are smaller. You want the largest plates possible. Only a straight Deep Cycle will give you that. If it has the word "Starting" or "Duel" as in duel use, on it anywhere leave it there. As I said these will work but there are better Deep Cycles out there for the same money. The difference will be seen in how many seasons you will get out of the battery. It doesn't matter if its a "designer Name" or generic, You will get more life, both in usage & seasons from a straight Deep Cycle battery than you will from a Marine Deep Cycle Starting Battery.

A store that rhymes with "ears", and I love this store, is notorious for pushing these Marine Start Batteries as a Cure-All with out knowing your needs.

A lot of people don't know exactly what a Deep Cycle will do, or how long it will do it. I'm a realist, I don't care what it says it will do in the book, or what the formulas results are. I want to know what it will do in real use.

Charge up your Deep Cycle, turn the lights on, walk away from it for a few days. You will be Amazed at how long it will last. This is a great "Peace of Mind" experiment. And because its a Deep Cycle, it won't hurt the Battery.

Happy Trails

Len

[cracker39]

Len, you and others have pointed out not to use the deep cycle marine trolling/starting battery. That's a good point for those who are buying for RV use. Even in my bass boat, I have a regular starting battery for the ignition and starting, and a deep cycle (NOT the starting type) for my trolling motor. I use separate types for best performance witn each type of use. They are wired separately and I would connect them in parallel only if the starting battery failed for some reason, and even then, I might not, as I can start the engine with a pull rope.

[len19070]

Good morning Dale

Another early riser! My thoughts exactly. All batteries are not created equal.

Another point. If you decide to add a second battery, both batteries must be NEW. If you add a new battery to an old one, you then get 2 old ones.

Its like running a relay race with your 80 year old Uncle Lou. Your doing great, poor old Uncle Lou is really bad. You & Uncle Lou as a team aren't very good. (Sorry Lou)

Happy Trails

Len