PLEASE!!!!! I need electrical help.

[Miriam C.]

Welcome Rev. Ken and your expertise will be doubly welcome.
Please feel free to send pictures too, cause we love da pictures
and truthfully they help a lot.

Miriam

[PaulC]

Welcome to the chaos Rev. Great to see your first post is informative. We never knock information from those that have the experience. Feel free to post info and, as Miriam said, pics because Madjack just luv's da pics (your turn now MJ)
Cheers
Paul

[Rev. Ken]

Thank you for he warm welcome. I haven't started on my teardrop yet. When i do i wil lbe posting pictures. I have to ge my shoulder fixed first.
Rev. Ken

[Leon]

220v circuit cannot be GFI protected as both wires are hot and can supply an uneven current distribution. Making a GFI useless.
Chuck

Look at any 220 V pool pump or spa equipment and they ARE protected by GFI 220 breakers. That's a requirement by most codes. A GFI senses the current going out and compares it to the current comming back, whether it is between the two legs of the 220 or any imbalance returning on the nuetral. If anything is missing, that means some is going to ground through whatever means and the breaker trips. I put two 220 GFI breakers in for a spa at almost $100 each! It ain't cheap but it can be done.

[Chuck Craven]

I'm new here and i don't want to upset anyone. But I have been a Union Electrician for 18 years, there is no such thing as two phase it is still single phase. Even tho you have two hot wires we stil lcal lit single phase.
And to correct what someone else said. While the black wire does carry the curent to the outlet the white does not carry it back. The reason for the neutral is to carry the unbalanced load and with anyone plugging up to a 110volt line at a camp ground you will never have an unbalanced load. I guess i've gone on long enough.
Have a Blessed day.

Hi Ken Know what your saying as I have been an electrician for 40 years. Not a union type. Work on high and super high power stuff. Also do full time electronics. Gone around and around about what 220 and 110 house wiring is, being single phase or two phase. Even have gotten different answers from the power companies all over the country.
I have found it easer to call it two phase 110 as most people do not know what a neutral tap is on a transformer. And how power is disturbed by the means of a pole peg transformer. Seen many an argument about this and no one seem to win. Even seen arguments on Y configuration of 208 three phase with three /120 single phase on the same plug. It sure can set some people off.
Chuck

[Chuck Craven]

220v circuit cannot be GFI protected as both wires are hot and can supply an uneven current distribution. Making a GFI useless.
Chuck

Look at any 220 V pool pump or spa equipment and they ARE protected by GFI 220 breakers. That's a requirement by most codes. A GFI senses the current going out and compares it to the current comming back, whether it is between the two legs of the 220 or any imbalance returning on the nuetral. If anything is missing, that means some is going to ground through whatever means and the breaker trips. I put two 220 GFI breakers in for a spa at almost $100 each! It ain't cheap but it can be done.

Hi Leon! Take a good look at them. They are two 120v GFI breakers in a single package with a mechanical link between them. They are not true 220 v breakers. But some one may be making them now as I don’t keep up with the new stuff that are coming out now days.Most of my work is 208,440,680,1290,10000 and 100000 volt three phase stuff. The kind of power, if you make a mistake they use a dustpan to pick you up.
Chuck

[Leon]

There is only one neutral connection to the "pair" and it shares that neutral back to the bus. If a leak to ground occurs on either hot it will trip. I know it will because we tested it when we installed it. If a leakage to ground on one hot trips both breakers, am I GFIing 110 or 220?

[Dee Bee]

Hello all,

Here is my problem. I have read a couple electrical wiring books but I am still clueless. All I want to do is run 1 light w/ switch, a small ac unit, 1 two plug outlet, and a small fridge. I don't want a battery and want to plug into whatever outlet a campground has ( is this shore power? Thanks so much!

Scott

Hi Scott

What I am wondering about is have you had your question answered. Some times the forum members can forget the first question in a thread and take the discusion far afield. Post again if we missed providing what you need. I knew next to nothing when I got started, but with patience I learned and this forum was a great help. So I hope we are helping you, too.

Dee Bee

[Chuck Craven]

There is only one neutral connection to the "pair" and it shares that neutral back to the bus. If a leak to ground occurs on either hot it will trip. I know it will because we tested it when we installed it. If a leakage to ground on one hot trips both breakers, am I GFIing 110 or 220?

It’s really is GFI ing the two 110 sides. The 220 side is from one hot to the other hot and in a 220 circuit most load devices that use the neutral have a unequal load on the two 110 sides. That is why the GFI breakers are set up as two 110 GFI with a mechanical link they will shut off both 110 sides of the line if a ground fault is detected in ether 110 circuit.. If the load device is like a stove that does not use the neutral then it is a true 220v device some motors are also 220 devices. The metal box or shell is then safety grounded and that is why the electrical code does not require GFI for stoves, even if it is close to water source. Now some states may require a stove to be GFI protected if with in 4 feet from a water source but the federal does not.
Chuck

[Larwyn]

I'm new here and i don't want to upset anyone. But I have been a Union Electrician for 18 years, there is no such thing as two phase it is still single phase. Even tho you have two hot wires we stil lcal lit single phase.
And to correct what someone else said. While the black wire does carry the curent to the outlet the white does not carry it back. The reason for the neutral is to carry the unbalanced load and with anyone plugging up to a 110volt line at a camp ground you will never have an unbalanced load. I guess i've gone on long enough.
Have a Blessed day.

I'm a bit confused about the purpose of the white wire here. If the current does not return on the white wire, just where does all that current go? I always thought that current needed a complete circuit in order to flow, and that you could get a reliable current reading with a clamp on ammeter whether you clamped around the black or the white wire.

I understand that in a three phase circuit the return only carries the imbalance current. The statement you referenced was concerning a single phase 110 volt outlet. Therein lies my confusion.

[Rev. Ken]

I'm a bit confused about the purpose of the white wire here. If the current does not return on the white wire, just where does all that current go? I always thought that current needed a complete circuit in order to flow, and that you could get a reliable current reading with a clamp on ammeter whether you clamped around the black or the white wire.

The white wire does complete the circuit but the current doesn't go anywhere untill you use it, it sits there and waits for you. An ampmeter will only work when clamped around the hot wire not the neutral.
Have a Blessed day.
Rev. Ken

[Leon]

The white wire will show current in a 110 circuit, and any imbalance in a 220 circuit.

[Larwyn]

I'm a bit confused about the purpose of the white wire here. If the current does not return on the white wire, just where does all that current go? I always thought that current needed a complete circuit in order to flow, and that you could get a reliable current reading with a clamp on ammeter whether you clamped around the black or the white wire.

The white wire does complete the circuit but the current doesn't go anywhere untill you use it, it sits there and waits for you. An ampmeter will only work when clamped around the hot wire not the neutral.
Have a Blessed day.
Rev. Ken

Obviously I was talking about an energized circuit, so the neutral would not be waiting for me. The way I understand what you are saying; if a person were to accidently place a switch in series with the neutral leg of a circuit it would have no control over the load. So if you have a "balanced" 110 volt load, it should function with only the one wire carrying current to be consumed by the load? The white wire is just there in case something gets out of balance?

My understanding of a series circuit, such as a black wire running from a breaker, through a switch and a light bulb back to the neutral buss in the breaker box on the white wire; the TOTAL current is equal to the current in ANY other part of the circuit. That would mean that the current in the black wire is equal to the current in the switch, which is equal to the current in the light, which is equal to the current in the white wire. This woud be true whether the switch was on or off, or the bulb were good or burned open. I must really be confused here........

[GeorgeTelford]

Rev Ken said

An ampmeter will only work when clamped around the hot wire not the neutral.

This is incorrect, current can be measured on either live or neutral wire.

But I have been a Union Electrician for 18 years

Given some of the totally inaccurate things you are posting here regarding electricity, the above statement is positively frightening.

there is no such thing as two phase it is still single phase.

An electrician who doesnt believe in electricity phases?

And to correct what someone else said. While the black wire does carry the curent to the outlet the white does not carry it back. The reason for the neutral is to carry the unbalanced load and with anyone plugging up to a 110volt line at a camp ground you will never have an unbalanced load. I guess i've gone on long enough.

This is totally and utterly wrong in every respect


I do not understand these reference's to an "energised circuit", unless current is being drawn it cannot be measured anywhere.

Larwyn, as pretty much described all of the law that covers this and is only slightly wrong in one very minor respect;


This woud be true whether the switch was on or off, or the bulb were good or burned open. I must really be confused here........

If the circuit is broken (open) no current is drawn ergo there is no current to measure.

here is a basic primer on current in circuit

http://www.tpub.com/neets/book1/chapter3/1-25.htm

[Larwyn]

Rev Ken said



But I have been a Union Electrician for 18 years

Given some of the totally inaccurate things you are posting here regarding electricity, the above statement is positively frightening.


And to correct what someone else said. While the black wire does carry the curent to the outlet the white does not carry it back. The reason for the neutral is to carry the unbalanced load and with anyone plugging up to a 110volt line at a camp ground you will never have an unbalanced load. I guess i've gone on long enough.

This is totally and utterly wrong in every respect


I do not understand these reference's to an "energised circuit", unless current is being drawn it cannot be measured anywhere.

Larwyn, as pretty much described all of the law that covers this and is only slightly wrong in one very minor respect;


This woud be true whether the switch was on or off, or the bulb were good or burned open. I must really be confused here........

If the circuit is broken (open) no current is drawn ergo there is no current to measure.

here is a basic primer on current in circuit

http://www.tpub.com/neets/book1/chapter3/1-25.htm

George.....think about it............What I said was that in a series circuit, total current is equal to current in any other part of the circuit. This is true at zero amps just as much as it is at a thousand amps. With the switch open you would measure zero amps in all parts of the circuit.....