Moving axle

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Moving axle

Postby PJLangevin » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:55 pm

If the axle is over the spring, can I move it under the spring?

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Re: Moving axle

Postby swoody126 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:20 am

usually yes

if it is a square axle it will usually be a simple unbolt, slide out and bolt back up usually using the same hardware

if it is a round axle and the spring pads are welded on you have different issues to deal with

either way you have to maintain the axle's orientation

¿ what style axle do you have ?

pics would help

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Re: Moving axle

Postby Sparksalot » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:34 am

I did it just fine. Make sure you have clearance above the spring to allow axle movement. I notched my frame to allow for this.

Overall it was a piece of cake, and gave Rose a 4" drop.

You will need to remount your fenders too.
You don't know the power of the Dork Side.

The Compass Rose build thread
viewtopic.php?t=23213

Inspiration
http://tnttt.com/Design_Library/Trailer%20for%20Two.htm
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Re: Moving axle

Postby PJLangevin » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:14 am

Here a few, not great, sorry. The wheel wells have to be modified. This is trailer #2. I've attached a photo of trailer #1. We are renovating #2 to have queen bed in it. ImageImageImageImage

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Re: Moving axle

Postby Sparksalot » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:53 am

I just saw that I misread your original question. Doing the flip to below should be even easier than bottom to top.

You get ground clearance, but your galley gets higher, so do the door sills.
You don't know the power of the Dork Side.

The Compass Rose build thread
viewtopic.php?t=23213

Inspiration
http://tnttt.com/Design_Library/Trailer%20for%20Two.htm
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Re: Moving axle

Postby PJLangevin » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:33 am

No, it's me who got it backwards. I need to lower it so the galley is lower. The teardrop unit is fine, its the little Lark that we need to lower.

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Re: Moving axle

Postby QueticoBill » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:15 pm

So its overslung - leaf springs sit on axle - and you want it underslung. I did that to my NT 5x8. I still have 3" and I'm pretty sure that's enough. Can you measure how much travel you will have if you undersling it. Depth of axle minus clear to frame or other obstruction above spring?

Try this https://www.suspensionmaxx.com/tech-sup ... alculator/

I think I would get as much info about total weight and look at e-trailer for the right u-bolts and plates. Overslung the bolts just hold it in plate. Underslung the bolts have all the gravity load - which isn't a lot for steel bolts in tension. Probably overkill but I'd look for grade 8 and as big in diameter as possible.

But the travel is key - how far the leaf springs will deflect.

I jope this helps.
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Re: Moving axle

Postby PJLangevin » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:26 pm

Thank you for the information, I will measure it and try to figure it out. Right now, the trailer sits about 24" off the ground, would like it a bit lower. Would replace the axle with Timbren, but the budget is well... I have this trailer on the go and the teardrop as well. So for now will just try and move the axle.
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Re: Moving axle

Postby PJLangevin » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:25 pm

Finally for some photos. Only letting me send 1Image

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Re: Moving axle

Postby PJLangevin » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:28 pm

Or I could do it the right way.
Anyway, what I would like to do is move axle to other side of springs, and turn the up offset on the hubs down.
Would leave me about 3" of clearance between axle and frame
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Re: Moving axle

Postby working on it » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:48 pm

QueticoBill wrote:...I think I would get as much info about total weight and look at e-trailer for the right u-bolts and plates. ...But the travel is key - how far the leaf springs will deflect....
E-TRAILER wrote:The leaf thickness, width and number of leaves has nothing to do with the capacity of the leaf spring, because the quality of steel and how it has been prepared for use as a leaf spring will affect its capacity. Some single leaf springs can carry more weight than a 5 leaf spring that seems to have 5 leafs all the same thickness as the single leaf spring.
Typical Axle Diameters Based on Axle Capacity:

1,000-lb - 2,000-lb Axles: 1-1/2inch - 1-3/4inch diameter
3,500-lb Axles: 2-3/8inch diameter - Can have a 3-1/2inch diameter, but rarely
-and, regarding LOWERING the ride height, just reverse what follows
Swapping the shackles, would not be a good idea because the hanger location would remain the same and cause the shackle links to rest at a harder angle more straight up and down which would cause a stiffer ride and would only raise the trailer on one side of the axle, cutting your probable lift in half.

The best way to raise the trailer an inch would be to replace the spring hangers with hangers that are approximately an inch deeper from the center of the bolt hole to the top of the hanger. This would require cutting off the old hangers and welding on the new ones, like you mentioned. You would then use the same length shackle links as originally used.

Another option that does not require welding is an over under spring conversion kit. This would raise the trailer the diameter of the axle plus the spring seat, so you might not be able to use this option since you only need an inch in height.
  • I don't think that trailers using drop axles can be lowered (safely), without causing stress fractures to the riser, further down along the road. And, possibly added stress to the spindles, and maybe to the spring hangers, all due to the added distance between the spring pack and the spindle center-line. I do think that you might get better results by replacing your aged-looking axle & springs (looks similar in spring size and shackle/hanger configuration to my original axle) with either a new torsion axle set-up (you said you liked Timbrens, and torsions ride similarly, over paved roads), or with a new longer leaf-springed & straight axle set-up, and eliminate the possible weaknesses I pointed out.
  • I didn't buy a torsion axle to replace my old axle, but installed a completely larger/longer/stronger leaf spring assembly, so I could trust it with my TTT's increasing weight, and to avoid any future repairs to my original set-up. I knew nothing about the specifications of what the springs were rated for, nor where to source parts for them, and also nil about the axle itself. By starting fresh, with commonly/readily available, standard trailer parts, I could "make it right" (a Canadian quote).
  • suggestions for drop axle replacement.jpg
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  • All the components used in my upgrade, can be found at stores everywhere, and even the custom-built Dexter axle can be re-ordered and shipped to me in a week. I couldn't find any hardware or springs similar-enough to the original, and really didn't want to stay with that set-up, when repairs were needed, so I threw out the entire thing. Plus, I got all I wanted: heavy-duty 3500 lb axle, brakes, new hangers/shackles/hardware, and especially longer/stronger, seemingly softer 3000 lb springs. Then, to save the springs from over-flexing, and for shock-absorption, I made active-progressive bumpstops, which will prevent spring breakage (I've had a couple break, on another trailer), and reduce or prevent shackle/hanger damage in any foreseeable event. Now might be the right time for you to replace your suspension, too.
  • I mentioned that the new, longer, 3000 lbs (per pair) were seemingly softer-riding than the old ones...perhaps not, because the old shackles had been over-tightened, and I'll never know how they should've felt, but I can easily get replacements (or rated for a softer ride), at any TSC, Northern Tool, and trailer supply shop anywhere, to "dial-in" my ride quality, if need be. These 25.25" eye-to-eye springs are sold everywhere, as a trailer standard size, for $25-30 apiece; replacing them would be simpler/cheaper than fixing a torsion spring ride quality problem, because they are set for life, as-ordered. I'm just saying...now's the time for a change.
  • longer springs on home-built hanger assemblies.jpg
    longer springs on home-built hanger assemblies.jpg (170.97 KiB) Viewed 235 times
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  • *3500 lb Dexter EZ-Lube axle, w/brakes *27x8.5-14LT all-terrain tires (x 3)
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Re: Moving axle

Postby Socal Tom » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:43 am

The axle can usually be moved from above the axle to below safely ( assuming adequate clearance). The only gotcha is that if the axle has been designed with any toe in then you could eat tires quickly. Based on the pics from the OP, I think it will be fine.
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Re: Moving axle

Postby KCStudly » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:31 pm

Socal Tom wrote:Based on the pics from the OP, I think it will be fine.


I'm not so sure. I think I can see a little camber in the first pic^^. If the axle has a bow up in the middle, that is factory "installed" camber and should not be flipped.

Flipping drop spindle axles is not a good idea. It will tend to put a lot more spring wrap into the springs and could cause issues with longevity (i.e. broken springs). Think about it like a plumb bob or Weeble vs. a guy on a unicycle. With the pivot point high and the attachment point low the load tends to be self righting, resulting in more stable spring loading. Torsion reactions will be aided by gravity to return to neutral. With the pivot point low and the load high, the spring, in addition to bearing the static load and vertical displacement, will see more repeated torsion reactions tending to try and keep the load neutral over the pivot point, despite gravity; just like the guy on the unicycle constantly pedaling back and forth to maintain balance.

Also, you want your brake assemblies to remain in the proper orientation so that they still function; short liner to front, with pivot point and magnet actuator in proper orientation to the ground, elsewise you will compromise braking. I know for sure that some backing plate bolt arrangements are not symmetrical, and therefore can not be flipped to correct brake assembly orientation on a flipped axle.
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Re: Moving axle

Postby Socal Tom » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:55 pm

Looking at it on a bigger screen, he might be right, there might be a curve. To make the change you would need to have the mounting plates moved to the other side of the axle, so it didn't get flipped over if that is true. It might be an optical illusion, but if you put a straight edge on the center of the axle you can check.
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Re: Moving axle

Postby PJLangevin » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:39 pm

Wow, this is great. So much information, all of it very good. I guess I should have stated my goals for all of this.
1) I would like a bit more axle clearance.
2) I've gone from a 205/75R15 to a 255 /70R18 tire/rim combo (matched to out '18 Jeep Wrangler JKU
3) Total gut of interior and renovations will change weight, hopefully lighten it.

The axle itself has mounts on too and bottom. Only reason I thought of flipping drop was to keep trailer even with Jeep, but I can leave it and adjust hitch.

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