Surge Brakes

[aggie79]

The boss just said okay to building a larger tear or tiny trailer subject to her design approval.

I have a 2007 CR-V with 4-wheel disc brakes and factory hitch with four-pin electrial connection. I would like to have trailer brakes and am considering hydraulic surge brakes (disc or drum) so I don't need a brake controller.

What do y'all think? All comments are appreciated.

[emiller]

Should work great, you'll just have to disengage the brakes when backing up.

[Gerdo]

Don't do surge brakes!

Read this. http://tnttt.com/viewto ... rge+brakes I think it will change your mind.

Electric brakes are much better and you can adjust them as you drive. If you are in icy conditions, turn them down. If you need the extra holding power going down a mountain, dial them up.

[Alphacarina]

In Europe I think only surge brakes are legal and they are very effective, if set up properly. You should even be able to gently back up with them without any problem. I had them on an 8,000 boat trailer and I could back up fine on level ground without disabling them

With 4 wheel disks on the tow vehicle, I would forget about trailer brakes unless your loaded trailer comes in over 1500 pounds . . . . and then it will probably be about all the CRV is really happy towing for any significant distances

Don

[madjack]

I am sure that surge brake tech has improved since my last experience with them but I HATE 'EM...had problems keeping them in proper adjustment, they would lockup when backing up a hill and would tend to apply themselves going down a hill..I wouldn't have them...if you are going with trailer brakes, I feel the hundred bucks spent onna DIGITAL PROPORTIONAL controller is well worth the money...once they are adjusted to your liking they stay that way, will only apply when wanted and can be used to apply just the trailer brakes when wanted and that can be a lifesaver inna jackknife situation...for that reason alone, electric brakes would get my vote...
madjack

[aggie79]

Thanks for the info. I'll take another look at electric brakes. As an interim, I guess it is possible to order an axle with electric brakes but not connect them to a controller until later if needed.

[brian_bp]

In Europe brakes are required, but I don't think they need to be surge type... maybe a European member can supply the correct info.

The only problem I know of with hydraulic surge disk brakes is that the master cylinders in the surge couplers are too large in bore, so they don't produce enough pressure for light trailers... they're not available in a range of sizes, and the ones you can get are sized for bigger stuff. This is a hardware availability issue, not a basic design fault.

I think the sizing issue is probably the source of the contention that they don't work well for light trailers. In Europe, cable-actuated surge brakes are used on quite light trailers.

Surge brakes inherently adjust to trailer load, but the ratio of master cylinder to slave cylinder sizes must be designed correctly from the beginning. Electric is easier for random design followed by tune-to-work, surge systems suit a properly designed vehicle. My guess is that examples given (in the other topic) of problems with heavier surge-braked trailers may be similar detail design issues.

A CR-V towing a 1500 lb trailer without brakes is certainly overloaded. Essentially all passenger vehicles and trucks under "full size pickup" call for trailer brakes for any trailer over 1000 lb.

The idea of surge brakes not working while backing seems ridiculous to me. As I read the Euro requirements, free-backing brakes are required, since any manual lockout scheme risks the user forgetting to re-activate them before resuming travel.

If the brakes are applying themselves going down a hill, the tug must be holding the trailer back, which means that perhaps they should be applying. One of the few problems of the advanced acceleration-proportional electric controllers is that they don't do any braking on a steady speed descent, even if the tug is braking. On the other hand, the potential overheating issue seems like a good point to me... and I don't have the ideal solution. Certainly, the manual lever on an electric controller is not it.

If you ever need to manually hit the trailer brakes due to a sway problem, I think you need to fix your trailer, not the brakes.

[brian_bp]

As an interim, I guess it is possible to order an axle with electric brakes but not connect them to a controller until later if needed.

Yes, and even if you went with hydraulic surge later, those backing plate assemblies would bolt on in place of the electric version... and the axle would have the flange to bolt them to (unlike many idler axles). The hub/drum is the same for electric or hydraulic.

[Dale M.]

My personal opinion is "surge" brakes are a pain in the butt...

I would go with electrics.... Majority of trailers are sold in US with electrics and replacement parts are virtually in every city who has some sort of RV or industrial trailler supply/dealer... Hydraulics don't always have same popularity.

Running a few wires from front to back of tow vehicle may be a minor inconvenience but it will be well worth the control ability you will gain with electrics. Also with pricing of hitch and hydraulics for surge brakes, I think you will find that the cost of controller and electric brakes is less than the surge system... Most rudimentary electric controller is about $55 and the goes up as they become more sophisticated...

The issue of changing out four wire "tow" connector to 6 or 7 wire is a very minor expense and will allow you to also bring hot wire (along with brake control) from tow vehicle to charge trailer battery when trailer is on the move..

Also electric brakes have a brake away control that if trailer ever disconnects from tow vehicle while in transit it will automatically apply brakes.. You can also us electrics to "lock" trailer in position for short time till you can get it up on jacks or during connect/disconnect at hitch.

I think if you so some searches (GOOGLE) on internet you will see its more economical to go electric than hydraulic and you gain a lot more braking control ...

Dale

[Alphacarina]

In Europe brakes are required, but I don't think they need to be surge type... maybe a European member can supply the correct info

"Trailer Brake Requirements
Braked trailers manufactured pre Oct. 1982 may be fitted with a spring damped coupling as a replacement item.
Braked trailers manufactured after Oct. 1982 must be fitted with a coupling that incorporates a hydraulic damper.
Braked trailers manufactured after Oct. 1982 require brakes that comply with EC Directives. If brakes are required, all wheels must be braked. (if manufactured in or after 1968)
Any braked trailers manufactured after April 1989 must be fitted with a hydraulically damped coupling and auto reverse brakes to give braking efficiencies required by EEC Directive 71/320 (ECE13)"

Trailer brakes are not required on trailers under 1500kg (1650 pounds) unless the weight of the trailer is over 50% of the weight of the tow vehicle

My Mazda Protege 5 is about 2500 pounds and I've towed an unbraked trailer load of about 1500 pounds back and forth across the country several times and never felt overloaded or unsafe. I keep a safe following distance and while my car certainly can't stop as short with the trailer as without it, the 4 wheel discs do a perfectly adequate job , IMO

Don

[asianflava]

Electronic brake controllers aren't that much, I bought a Teknosha P3 for $127, it also came with a $20 rebate. The Teknosha controllers (P3 or Prodigy) are the ones to get, but there others that are cheaper.

The wiring is a different story, they made a harness specifically for my truck so it was literally, plug and play. You'd have to get it installed unless you are familiar with installation. Professional installation may save you headaches later.

http://www.autoaccessconnect.com/tep3prsetrbr.html

[Gerdo]

I have electric brakes, love them. I also have the Prodigy which is a digital control, love it. Around town I dont need the brakes, I remove the controller when not towing. Brakes are a great peice of mind when coming down the mountains.

[angib]

To throw in the Yurpeen perspective, I understand that electric brakes may be a better choice on larger trailers, but it's a shame you can't get the Yurpeen-type mechanical surge brakes which would be ideal for teardrops.

It seems the real comparison is between no brakes (because it's too much bother to modify the tow vehicle for electric brakes and learn how to use them) and mechanical surge brakes (because they are automatic in operation and don't require tow vehicle modification) - so that competition is easily won by mechanical surge brakes! You'll note that I didn't mention 'cheap' as mechanical brakes seem to be at least as expensive as electric brakes.

Andrew

[SteveH]

I've had a trailer with surge brakes, and I liked them. The only thing that was a hastle, as others have said, was backing the thing up into the driveway. What I did was drill a hole in the coupler, and insert a 1/4" bolt to disable them when baking up into the driveway. That was my only issue.

All that being said, if I had the choice, I'd go with electrics.

[Dale M.]

To throw in the Yurpeen perspective, I understand that electric brakes may be a better choice on larger trailers, but it's a shame you can't get the Yurpeen-type mechanical surge brakes which would be ideal for teardrops.

It seems the real comparison is between no brakes (because it's too much bother to modify the tow vehicle for electric brakes and learn how to use them) and mechanical surge brakes (because they are automatic in operation and don't require tow vehicle modification) - so that competition is easily won by mechanical surge brakes! You'll note that I didn't mention 'cheap' as mechanical brakes seem to be at least as expensive as electric brakes.

Andrew

Whats so difficult about setting slider or control knob to a setting where you can feel the braking assist from trailer and not yet lockup tires on trailer when brake is applied... Learning curve is about 3-4 "test stops" then life is good...

Dale