Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

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Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby FLFLYIN » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:45 am

Well here I go into Uncharted Territory.... as far as I know

As much as I have searched. I have not found a single camping application that truly fits my needs. First, I drive a 4-door Jeep Wrangler that can get me to campgrounds that 99.99% of the population couldn't imagine exist! If the trailer can't follow me to the campsite, what is the point? Second, many of those are in either rattlesnake and/or bobcat and bear territory that my Dog would think is just another chew toy until its too late!

Because my camping partner is currently a Rottweiler mix, I must consider her as much planning the design as a future Girlfriend. Depending on the amount of Fireball / Beer consumed, her ability to jump into a trailer depends on each log on the campfire. Even though her ability isn't changed, my ability to judge and assist can become quite impaired by the friends present! Imagine a Doggie Pee break on an elevated Trailer mounted Tent at 3 am? I can picture Dog and owner curled around a ladder at first light! Also the trail I am camped on may not be very wide, but I can pull 4' ahead to make more room behind the trailer so the door need to be at the back instead of a side entry.

In order to keep the CG and the profile low I have looked at the Folding Trailers available in the UK. (https://youtu.be/ZrjumcQ8EDU) In addition I was looking into the Independent Suspensions used in the Australian Outback for the chassis. The A-frame with airbags addresses many issues including ride height on/off road and corrects for campsites that are not level. (I always have an Air Compressor with me when I Camp) My goal is an off road, stand up, travel trailer with a cabin (6'5"+) with a high ground clearance (18 inch minimum) and a travel trailer(towed) height lower than my exiting spare tire (65 inch Max) on the Jeep with minimal setup!

I would appreciate any ideas you may have. I have spent some time thinking this though, but I'd rather address issues on pen and paper than Wood and Steel!
Last edited by FLFLYIN on Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby Dale M. » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:35 am

I think you have crossover into one of two categories.... First one being a fold out.... The Second being a "egg"...

http://images.lmgtfy.com/?q=egg+trailers

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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby aggie79 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:57 am

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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby tony.latham » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:05 am

Bobcats and bears, oh my! :shock:

The A-frame with airbags addresses many issues and corrects for campsites that are not level.


I'm not sure what you are needing the airbags for. We seldom camp in campgrounds and thus generally we don't have the luxury of parking on level ground. Ramped leveling blocks are simple, fail proof, and add another minute to our setup time. When the teardrop is behind us, the blocks are in the Tacoma. And don't forget the chocks.

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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby Jim.M » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:28 am

I have been down this same (design) road.

I would suggest putting pen to paper and write down the dimensions you'd like, and then which dimensions you're OK with shortening/lengthening.

For example, you want ground clearance and also the towing height to be less than your spare tire, and you want it to be a standy... unless your spare tire is on your jeep's roof, that leaves very little room for the base box.

assuming the top of your tire is 4 ft off the ground, and 'good ground clearance' puts the top of the chassis frame at 24"... that only leaves 2 feet. So in 2 vertical feet you'd like to build a camper that is tall enough to stand in? That's a lot of accordion folds or nestled walls, which might get shaken apart when you're offroading. On the other hand, if you eschew hard walls, your camper would be very easy build with fabric walls.

when you start looking at your chassis options, timbren has a '1 tonne' model (not on their web site) with extra-long trailing arms. add some electric brakes so your trailer isn't pushing your jeep where you don't want it to go when offroading, and you have a suspension that will give good ground clearance and a smooth ride, albeit at a eye-watering price!

but you may find out (as I think others on this forum have) that although some parts of your build might seem astronomically priced, spending for the best and avoiding future hassles when enjoying your trailer in the hinterlands is the best policy, but one very few adopt at the outset.

Take a look at the prices on those australian trailers... those guys (gals?) have done the hard work testing and building trailers that work under harsh conditions, and their hard-won know-how and quality costs $$$.
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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby aggie79 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:03 pm

Jim.M wrote:when you start looking at your chassis options, timbren has a '1 tonne' model (not on their web site) with extra-long trailing arms. add some electric brakes so your trailer isn't pushing your jeep where you don't want it to go when offroading, and you have a suspension that will give good ground clearance and a smooth ride, albeit at a eye-watering price!


I believe you can "mix and match" with (some of) the Timbren components. Someone on this forum bought the 3500# axles with the 2000# suspension units. That way you can get stronger components with the suspension compliance of the lighter components.
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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby KCStudly » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:00 pm

The more serious off road campers all seem to have a short overhang with the lower rear edge beveled up to improve departure angle. So my thought is what if you had a rear entry door with a fold down set of steps, kind of like a small business jet or the early commercial airliners? I don't know if this fits in your floor plan and may take too much of a bite out of the bed space, but maybe it could be a starting point. It would make for a safer entry than a ladder. Another option is the pantograph style of steps that extend and retract. Those wouldn't take up any inside space, can extend quite a way to accommodate high ground clearance, and won't eat up much clearance when retracted.

One thing you can do with air bags that is for sure an advantage, is to have independent control from the TV. That way on a side hill you can deflate the up hill side and inflate the down hill side to lean into the hill. Can't do that with leveling blocks. On the other hand, if the TV has a higher CG and/or tends to tip before the camper it may be a moot point.

Another thing comes to mind; there are two schools of thought. One is to build everything rugged and burly to withstand abuse, but tends to end up heavy. The second is to build light and sturdy with strategic protection built in. Although I'm not building for harsh off roading, I tend to side with the later school of thought. By minimizing mass the acceleration loads (due to jostling and bouncing) are reduced and therefore the members can be relatively lighter and still hold up.
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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby pchast » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:38 pm

Just brain storming here but...
:thinking:
I've seen lowering trailers for loading.
How about a system that reverses and
raises for off road?
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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby tony.latham » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:47 pm

Can't do that with leveling blocks.


KC:

My wife's pretty quick. I think if I went slow, and we had two sets of blocks, we could keep it level while side hilling.

I thought the air bags were for leveling in camp. My confusion.

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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby FLFLYIN » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:00 am

...lower rear edge beveled up to improve departure angle
I was mentally designing it to mimic the back end of a Jeep Wrangler so the Axel is near the back of the trailer to maximize the Departure Angle. Also I planned to repurpose either the front or rear bumper that came off my Wrangler.

what if you had a rear entry door with a fold down set of steps, kind of like a small business jet

I was planning on putting a receiver hitch on the back for a number of purposes, including a Bike rack, recover point, and I was thinking some kind of step/stair that could be removed. Plus it would serve as a Sacrificial impact point if I came down hard on a rock.

One thing you can do with air bags that is for sure an advantage, is to have independent control from the TV. That way on a side hill you can deflate the up hill side and inflate the down hill side to lean into the hill.
What a cool concept, I never would have though about that. It may be overkill for my concept, but I like It :thumbsup: The other advantage is if I get hung up on a rock, adjusting the ride height may help me roll/slide over it. Granted, If the trail is that rough, I probably have already set up camp and am out having fun without the weight of a trailer.

Another thing comes to mind; there are two schools of thought. One is to build everything rugged and burly to withstand abuse, but tends to end up heavy. The second is to build light and sturdy with strategic protection built in.
My thought was to go somewhere in the middle, overbuild in strategic places where damage is likely to occur and minimize weight as much as possible. For example, I have a set of Rubicon Rock Rails that I plan on mounting to the sides ahead of the wheels to protect the sides from impact. They worked well on my Jeep traversing the Rubicon Trail a few summers back. Also I'm trying to design it with the lowest possible Center of Gravity. (Ground Clearance mind you) If it's low, then extra weight could be "Good" weight.
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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby FLFLYIN » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:21 am

As all good builds evolve, it is critical to give it a fitting name, much like a ship. I may not have the design down yet, but this Build just found it's name when my dog can't help but jump into my TV. I can't wait to Christen the "Piper's Cub House". It not only gives homage to the venerable Bush airplane the Piper Cub, but also my Camping Partner Piper, My Naughty Rottie.
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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby bc toys » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:32 am

Welcome to this group sound like you go to some really nice camping areas I to am from Las Vegas and I have a cargo trailer and pull with a 4 door Jeep haven't taken trailer off the road much We camp with a DO group and by our selves would love for you to come out and meet everyone some day Las Vegas Enthusiast is the group if you want to look it up on Facebook and Dutch oven cooking
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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby Yak » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:05 pm

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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby FLFLYIN » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:32 pm

bc toys wrote:We camp with a DO group and by our selves would love for you to come out

I'd love to even if my Dutch Oven skills are a little weak.

Yak wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk6KJXeOM0k

Cool video, with the exception of the deep sand, that's realistically the level of offloading I truly plan to do pulling the trailer. Neat Trailer, but much larger than I'm looking for. And did I mention that I need to store it in my garage when not in use? That's why I'm looking to the British Folding Caravan or A-liner trailer as a solution to the height issue when traveling and still be a standee.
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Re: Uncharted Territory.... as far as I have researched...

Postby aggie79 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:38 am

FLFLYIN wrote:[And did I mention that I need to store it in my garage when not in use? That's why I'm looking to the British Folding Caravan or A-liner trailer as a solution to the height issue when traveling and still be a standee.


How about an offroad version of the Compact:
http://www.angib.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/teardrop/tear48.htm?
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