Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Hndbskt » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:49 pm

Thanks Verna, just found this site yesterday and already have learned a lot and gotten a couple of questions answered, we're excited to be joining the Teardrop world. Thanks everyone. :)

Verna wrote:
Hndbskt wrote:The video/photos on the little guy website looks like there are slide windows in the doors. Can anyone with a Little Guy Trailers confirm: http://www.golittleguy.com/teardrops/videos.php


I have a Little Guy 4-wide and, yes, it does have windows that slide up. Mine also has a manual roof vent that can be opened just a little bit, or a lot.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby PKCSPT » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:57 pm

My little guy 4 side also has two openable windows and a roof vent.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Forrest747 » Tue May 08, 2012 8:32 am

Ok even though inside i have cut an opening for a roof vent i still have not made a hole in the roof. i however have these wonderful windows and wonder are they enough for fresh air?

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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby bc toys » Tue May 08, 2012 9:19 am

yes they are enough for fresh air just remember to crack them about 1/4 '' or if they don't seal good you might not need to crack them at all you can cut a hole in the galley floor and in back wall of bed room area insert a vent with a bug screen in both and that will give you enough air to breath. I'm going to cut vents in my floor myself and use one for a/c return.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Hndbskt » Sat May 12, 2012 9:59 pm

PKCSPT wrote:My little guy 4 side also has two openable windows and a roof vent.


Thanks
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Re:

Postby rowerwet » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:29 pm

mikeschn wrote:Billy,

That's a really good idea... How big were the side vents? And of course, do you have a picture?

Mike...

I had to move my shore power plug location while configuring my TD for real camping, I didn't know what to do with the 1.5" hole in the side of my TD, then I found a left over bath tub vent in my plumbing tools bag.
so now my permanent vents are a bathtub vent/drain cover (you know the one with the little handle sticking out of it to operate the drain on some tubs) they also sell them flush for those of us who prefer a manually operated drain plug (more sanitary to take a bath, have you ever seen the gunk inside the drain pipe, if you take a bath your'e stewing in that gunk) :shock:
I glued a piece of screen over the inside of the hole. I happened to have this vent left over from another project, I figure if it is made to withstand daily showers, it should be fine on the outside of the TD. One of these down low and one up high on the other side should keep me alive.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Rolly » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:29 am

Plug in Explosive Gas & CO alarm and cordless CO alarm. The plug in has a 9 volt backup battery in it. Alarms/detectors should be replaced every 3-5 years, not something to buy at a garage sale or flea market. Yeah I have that hat. The cordless always travels with my big buddy heater. The plug in gets a new battery and goes in the trailer when we leave town. Carburator cleaner gets the plug in excited. Could cooking put CO in the trailer through a vent to the galley?

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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Bogo » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:17 am

Proper ventilation for humidity removal is something I figured was mandatory so it has been part of my design thoughts from the beginning. Hadn't thought about the CO2 buildup, but I can see where it would be an issue in such a small space. I'd also thought about having CO and smoke alarms. My only CO poisoning episode happened when I was parked at a rest stop and due to a wind shift in the night I ended up down wind of a bunch of semis idling. I got a nasty headache, dizziness and I felt like I needed to vomit. It took a few hours in clean air to get mostly recovered from it. I still felt a little off days later.

Anyone else thought of using a heat recovery ventilator? For those out in the cold or using A/C I was figuring it would be a way to maintain as much heat as possible in the winter, and cool in the summer. I live in a house that uses one because it is so air tight, so why not use one in an air tight teardrop. I just did a quick search for smallest heat recovery ventilator and one of the links that came up was to this home built design.
http://makeprojects.com/Project/Heat-Exchanger/279/1
It's a simple design and it looks like it could easily be made much smaller and reformatted for use in a tear drop trailer. I would modify it for draining off condensation otherwise I could see it dripping out.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby BrockGrimes » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:24 pm

They make computer fans that move up to 200cfm and a 120mm fan will work well in a dryer duct type vent hole.
They are also 12vdc, 7vdc, 5vdc powered so will run off automotive power.
A spare computer power supply can also power them if your running ac power.

Search computer modding sites for fans, etc.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby bearfromobx » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:55 pm

Sorry for the rough drawing, but I wanted to get this down while I could.

This is my idea for an integral air to air heat exchanger made from thin walled copper or aluminum tubing and a box designed to mesh into almost any trailer design like a false wall or ceiling with a small computer fan doing double duty as a vent fan or a one pass exhaust fan with the windows open. I don’t show any protection to prevent water from entering the tubes or the exhaust vent outlets due to the need to design this for your trailer and this could be built on the outside as well if you want to insulate the skin and keep as much headroom as possible or to add to an existing trailer without tearing it apart.

If you are interested in a more detailed design, feel free to PM me.

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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Corwin C » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:36 pm

I've been working on an idea for an air2air exchanger as well. Even being able to get fresh air half-way from outside to inside temperatures would make hot and cold season camping more comfortable. Commercially available exchangers are EXPENSIVE and too big for our application. I've been trying to come up with one that would be small, easy to produce, and work well. I was planning on using 12v. computer fans to produce the airflow. A prototype has NOT been built yet.

My idea is to use hardwood strips on the edges with aluminum foil as the separator between the two airflows. The hardwood strips would alternate like lincoln logs allowing flow from north/south and the next layer allowing flow from east/west. So each layup would be two sticks on the edges running E/W, a layer of foil, two sticks running N/S on the edges, a layer of foil, repeat. The foil would be attached to the strips with double sided tape as a seal. Essentially. I was going to build up a cube of these and the flow that is north/south through the cube would not mix with the flow that is east/west, but they would be able to transfer heat from one layer to the next. The rest of the puzzle would be to create appropriate ducting adapters for the fans and intake/exhaust on each side of the cube.

This is a quick and dirty sketchup drawing of my idea. You will need to orbit around to see how the flows are kept separate. The corners could have a bolt through them to hold the stack together, but I think that the double sided tape may be adequate.

Air2Air Exchange.skp
(76.88 KiB) Downloaded 94 times

Let me know what you think.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Bogo » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:38 am

Take a look at the Make Projects Heat Exchanger (http://blog.makezine.com/projects/heat-exchanger/). Looks like the link I had a couple posts before died. It could be scaled to nearly any size. A wavy foil would be better than a smooth one because the airflow would be more turbulent and thus make the heat transfer greater. I was thinking of using heavy weight aluminum foil, and forming it over a grooved form to make it wavy. I'd route 1/2 round parallel grooves into a block of wood the size of the finished foil sheets. The groves wouldn't go quite to the edges. There would be a flat border around the edges for double stick taping the foil layers to the frames. I'd use 1/4" x 1/2" plastic bars for the strips. Double stick foam tape for the taping of the foil to the frames. This is to allow for imperfections in the foil and frame thicknesses. Instead of the air holes drilled in the sides of the frames, I'd just leave out that area. I do feel you want the air flow in opposite directions like the Make Project has because it will be more efficient. As for fans, I'd use two of the quietest muffin fans I could find.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby OverTheTopCargoTrailer » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:11 pm

This is an interesting topic.


I personally have had Co poisoning on a stinky disel boat at sea, sailing into the wind while I was on the rear deck & I can tell you I puked my guts out with pure yellow bile for 4- 6 hours straight, it was much, much, much worse then the worst drunk most have ever been on. Ive been on lots of boats - and this was not sea sickness. To this day I can smell a disel truck 1/4 mile in front of me on the highway with my windows down.

Not to make light of folks walking up gasping for air as it has happened to me also, but I can 10,000% guarantee you that you were most likely not suffering from severe Co poisoning or were near death. Now there is a case of a Mexican trucker with 100 illegal aliens in a boiling hot cargo truck with many dead inside, however that would be like comparing apples to oranges - as you do not have 130 deg heat in your teardrop at night.

The second point I would like to make is that old houses have up to 8 air changes per hour. The tightest houses that have been professional sealed with blower door tests and smoke leak tests can possible achieve .2 air changes per hour. It would boggle my mind if any teardrop has less then 1 air change per hour. Has anyone ever done a blower door & smoke test to then determine how air tight their teardrop actually is ?? To gather some basic scientific evidence ?

I think it would be safe to say that sleeping with the windows cracked or open vent, allows for better healthy sleep !!
Everybody I'm sure can agree on that.

But coming to the conclusion that a tight teardrop can kill you , without even one recorded death or any scientific evidence
To support how air tight a teardrop actually is , is a little stretch of the imagination IMHO !!!

If someone strongly disagrees - them we need to get the myth busters on board :beer: :beer:


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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby parnold » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:28 pm

Jerry, I think most of us agree that the title is a little sensational. Co (carbon Monoxide) poisoning is drastically different, and drastically more dangerous than CO2 "poisoning". What I woke up gasping from, was either lack of oxygen, or excess carbon dioxide (co2). Our bodies natural reaction is to wake up, and of course, then we simply open a door or window and the problem is solved. Is it possible that someone would not wake up? I don't know that, probably not, but hey, why take chances. Think of this as a public service announcement, for your safety.

As far as air tight goes, my trailer is encased in polyester resin. The floor is encased in rubberized undercoat. All my doors and windows are factory rubber seals (I did not build a single one) so it is pretty darn airtight. You can definitely feel resistance when closing the door if the windows are closed.

I'd be interested in doing a test if you could explain how to do it. I would be very interested. I would guess that my tear would probably test out pretty airtight due to the fact that none of the seals were made by me, lol.

When I made this post, I was less informed than I am now. Many of the comments have enlightened me, and I agree with your basic premise, that it is highly unlikely, or more accurately probably impossible for an airtight teardrop to kill you. That being said, waking up in the middle of the night, gasping desperately for breath, and being as disoriented as I was, gave me quite the scare. No matter how cold it is outside, I leave one of the windows open a bit.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby working on it » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:14 pm

Parnold said :As far as air tight goes, my trailer is encased in polyester resin. The floor is encased in rubberized undercoat. All my doors and windows are factory rubber seals (I did not build a single one) so it is pretty darn airtight. You can definitely feel resistance when closing the door if the windows are closed.
My trailer is sealed tight also, with extremely tight fit around the doors (67-72 Chevy truck seals), and must be forced shut. The inside is sealed with paint, the exterior with poly and paint. All seams are sealed with PL adhesive. I have tight butterfly covers on the cabin vents, and the windows seem to shut very tightly. I experimented with the A/C and electrical system a while back, and found out, among other things, that the trailer is too well sealed. In a matter of just 10-15 minutes, with no external airflow or A/C running, the humidity inside would rise from comfortable to miserable (48% to 99%). I guess that there was a considerable CO2 build-up also. And that's with just one person in the 4x8. I guess that I must leave vent cracked open at all time to avoid this, since the little A/C has no "fresh air" feature.
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