Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby OverTheTopCargoTrailer » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:16 am

Here is some info on blower door tests
If indeed a teardrop had less then 1 air change per hour
Then of course it would require additional air - for many other reasons also.




http://www.energyconservatory.com/sites/default/files/documents/blowerdoortestingjlc.pdf
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby OverTheTopCargoTrailer » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:18 am

Here is a good story of a guy trapped 30 meters under water in a tug boat toilet for 60 hours
Inside a small air bubble




http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/This-Man-Survived-In-An-Air-Bubble-Underwater-For-4598639.php
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby cryptojones » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:39 pm

Thank you for posting this. I know it seems like common sense to most of you, but I never even thought of this as a danger.


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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby working on it » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:10 pm

working on it wrote:
Parnold said :As far as air tight goes, my trailer is encased in polyester resin. The floor is encased in rubberized undercoat. All my doors and windows are factory rubber seals (I did not build a single one) so it is pretty darn airtight. You can definitely feel resistance when closing the door if the windows are closed.
My trailer is sealed tight also, with extremely tight fit around the doors (67-72 Chevy truck seals), and must be forced shut. The inside is sealed with paint, the exterior with poly and paint. All seams are sealed with PL adhesive. I have tight butterfly covers on the cabin vents, and the windows seem to shut very tightly. I experimented with the A/C and electrical system a while back, and found out, among other things, that the trailer is too well sealed. In a matter of just 10-15 minutes, with no external airflow or A/C running, the humidity inside would rise from comfortable to miserable (48% to 99%). I guess that there was a considerable CO2 build-up also. And that's with just one person in the 4x8. I guess that I must leave vent cracked open at all time to avoid this, since the little A/C has no "fresh air" feature.

At my first trailer gathering, as I showed some of them my trailer's features, someone remarked that "if your trailer is as airtight as you say, then you'd better leave the butterfly vents open". Another commented that the placement of the vents being high up on the walls, would not vent out any accumulating CO2 (heavier than air?). That worried me a bit. So during my first night out, I opened each vent halfway, and ran the A/C. It froze me down to 65 degrees before I figured the right setting to maintain 72 degrees (still used a comforter). Later that night, I awoke as the electrical had come unplugged (kids in camp next door?), and I still was under the covers and hot. So, instead of getting up and restoring 110vac power, I decided to test the 12vdc case fans as ventilators, with no main fan, nor A/C running. I turned them on, opened the butterfly vents all the way, and settled back to see. After 3-4 hours (as I listened to my MP3 player),I was still breathing, though the trailer cabin was now at 86 degrees and humidity 75%. Livable, but not comfortable. The test was a success, so I turned on my inverter to run my 110vac fan off the battery (still didn't get out to fix the unplugged park power line), and I went back to sleep. The next night, I didn't even need the A/C anyway, and slept soundly , assured that the computer case fans or the bigger ac-powered fan moved enough CO2 out the vents to keep me alive. I might add some small soffit vents down low, to allow CO2 to escape in the event that NO power ventilation is available.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby rowerwet » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:20 am

as long as you have vents, you wont suffocate. I have mine up high so natural body heat rising will dift out and pull in cooler air. 112242
CO2 will be removed by normal circulation, CO may not in high concentrations. Unless you are burning something inside the trailer, CO wont be an issue.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Bogo » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:06 am

There won't be a an easily detectable difference between the CO and CO2 levels from the bottom to the top of the TD. Simple diffusion will assure that. So it means any vent with reasonable air flow through it will do for getting rid of it.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby oakinteriors1 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:44 pm

Be nice to have the co2 detector hooked up to a vent fan like a thermostat....
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby working on it » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:18 pm

Bogo wrote: ...any vent with reasonable air flow through it will do for getting rid of it.

Worst case scenario time...dead-still air inside and out, 110vac power goes away, and since it was working before, the 12vdc fans aren't powered up. As high up as my vents are, couldn't that be an insufficient airflow situation? I guess that the two computer case fans, drawing less than .3 amps each, could be powered up anytime I was in the cabin, to create airflow, and even run 24/7 while in camp, without drawing down the battery (example: 48 hours in camp; .3 amps each x 2 fans x 48 hours = 28.8 amp hours). Roughly 52% of the rated capacity of the Optima Yellowtop. Or even better, just use one case fan. Even if 110vac is also being used to power the A/C unit, or the main fan? Advisable, or not needed? Just checked my facts: the case fans only draw .18 amps @ 12vdc (2350 rpm, 62.75 cfm each). Therefore 1 fan at .18 amps x 48 hours = 8.64 amp hours...a minor draw!. I think I answered my own question.
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  • featuring: 3500 lb Dexter axle w/brakes & HD leaf spring system > riding on General Grabber 27x8.5-14LT tires, LED lighting inside, A/C & heat, AGM battery 12vdc, 110vac from extended run generator onboard or park power, Coleman dual-fuel stove & Northstar lantern
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby gudmund » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:28 pm

when I first gone my teardrop I found myself always trying to make sure my roof vent was kept closed when moving down the road/in case it starts raining along with not wanting the wind to rip it off. Which in turn I found myself needing air every some often being I forgot to crack the vent when sleeping. My solution - a MAXAIR II Roof Vent Cover. I LOVE IT !!!!, it may look hokey to some but I can leave the vent open rain or shine, parked or traveling, leave it open ALL the time even when stored. Have to check the vent now to make sure it's open being it sometime vibrates closed when traveling (leaving it open when traveling also does a great job of venting off the moisture/condensation from the sleep the nite before. I have teardrop people asking me about it all the time but still haven't seen any of them being used, yet. Camping World or any good RV store usually has them in stock along with them only being held on with only 4 screws and are easily removed if need be for cleaning. cost is about $30 to $50 depending type of plastic it is made of.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby Cantputt » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:26 pm

I should have paid more attention to this sticky. Been camping a few times in the cold now and every time I had issues that I have now figured out were due to being too airtight. Maybe this is important enough to get placed in the various build threads so others don't miss it. Kinda scary - one of my issues was that my buddy heater would not light or go out real fast. I thought it was faulty and kept trying to get it going.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby christover1 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:02 pm

Been thinking hard on this.
Opening windows was adding complication, weight and width to my build.
Have decided on sealed windows.
And permanent vents, using roof vents from the hardware store.
Haven't decided on a roof vent, or not, as off roading can wipe stuff off the roof.'
But a slimline type may happen.
Solar powered fan is a maybe, but when not travelling, its parked in the shade.
Or I can use roof vents on top of the sides, with some on the bottom, too.
My concern is dust sucking in, so may add an internal way to block them off.


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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby dguff » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:33 pm

OverTheTopCargoTrailer wrote:Here is a good story of a guy trapped 30 meters under water in a tug boat toilet for 60 hours
Inside a small air bubble






http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/This-Man-Survived-In-An-Air-Bubble-Underwater-For-4598639.php


I wonder how many cubic feet of air were in his "bubble"? Larger, about the same, or smaller than your average teardrop? :thinking:
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby jseyfert3 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:08 am

dguff wrote:
OverTheTopCargoTrailer wrote:Here is a good story of a guy trapped 30 meters under water in a tug boat toilet for 60 hours
Inside a small air bubble






http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/This-Man-Survived-In-An-Air-Bubble-Underwater-For-4598639.php


I wonder how many cubic feet of air were in his "bubble"? Larger, about the same, or smaller than your average teardrop? :thinking:
Jerome

A lot more. That space he was in may have been small (you can see the space in the video, although note that there may have been space not visible or shown in the video that added air volume). However, he was at 30 meters in depth. At that depth the air would have been a pressure of 4 atmospheres, giving whatever space 4 times the amount of breathing air that the same size space at sea level would have had.

On topic, has anyone come to a conclusion on the smallest permainant vent size you need to keep the CO2 levels from uncomfortable/dangerous levels?

Since I'm in the planning stages of construction, I may try a version of that MAKE heat exchanger and fit it into my tear while building. I need to raise the floor to clear the tires as I'm doing a 5' build on a 4' HF trailer, so that "dead space" may be perfect for a computer fan powered heat exchanger for breathing air and to control humidity.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby ts04011 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:35 pm

I'm new to the forum and starting by build. Happy you woke and greatfull you provide your experience.
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Re: Air Tight Teardrops can KILL YOU

Postby rowerwet » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:17 am

working on it wrote:
Bogo wrote: ...any vent with reasonable air flow through it will do for getting rid of it.

Worst case scenario time...dead-still air inside and out, 110vac power goes away, and since it was working before, the 12vdc fans aren't powered up. As high up as my vents are, couldn't that be an insufficient airflow situation? I guess that the two computer case fans, drawing less than .3 amps each, could be powered up anytime I was in the cabin, to create airflow, and even run 24/7 while in camp, without drawing down the battery (example: 48 hours in camp; .3 amps each x 2 fans x 48 hours = 28.8 amp hours). Roughly 52% of the rated capacity of the Optima Yellowtop. Or even better, just use one case fan. Even if 110vac is also being used to power the A/C unit, or the main fan? Advisable, or not needed? Just checked my facts: the case fans only draw .18 amps @ 12vdc (2350 rpm, 62.75 cfm each). Therefore 1 fan at .18 amps x 48 hours = 8.64 amp hours...a minor draw!. I think I answered my own question.

the only fan I have blowing in or out is the A/C, if it isn't on I don't need a fan. your body gives off about as much heat as a 100 watt light bulb. hold your hand a few feet above a 100 watt bulb, or use toilet paper to see the air rising. there is always a "thermal" of heated air rising over your body, it is the way you can get rid of enough heat to live. this warmer air will find it's way out through a large enough vent near the roof, colder air will come in and flow down the wall. put a vent on both sides up high, any breezes will help that way.
I don't have a roof vent as I don't want anything to get in the way of boat hauling, and don't want to take chances on leaks, the old timers seem to have avoided roof vents as well.
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