Wall / sides construction

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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby CBO » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:34 pm

Why not 3/4 plywood with a thin carpet material glued on the interior walls? Wouldn't that be enough to ward off condensation?
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby greygoos » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:28 pm

Taking the lead from a builder on here who has completed more than 150 teardrops I used 1/2 ply on my last build and covered the interior with carpeting. I didnt have the camper for long, but never had any condensation problems. I guess it is your own preference and the climate you live in.
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby Ottsville » Tue May 08, 2018 7:44 am

CBO wrote:Why not 3/4 plywood with a thin carpet material glued on the interior walls? Wouldn't that be enough to ward off condensation?


I like carpet; it's a simple solution to provide a minimum of insulation and a good bit of sound deadening. However moisture is still gets in the air, and most likely you just won't see it on the walls as the carpet will hold and disperse it. I would think that long term, this would eventually lead to moisture related issues in the wood and carpet.
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby Andrew Herrick » Wed May 09, 2018 1:16 am

Ottsville wrote:
CBO wrote:Why not 3/4 plywood with a thin carpet material glued on the interior walls? Wouldn't that be enough to ward off condensation?


I like carpet; it's a simple solution to provide a minimum of insulation and a good bit of sound deadening. However moisture is still gets in the air, and most likely you just won't see it on the walls as the carpet will hold and disperse it. I would think that long term, this would eventually lead to moisture related issues in the wood and carpet.


You've hit upon the key distinction. Carpet doesn't have much insulation value. It adds R 0.25 - 0.5 (assuming minimal or no padding). In an absolute sense, it's not much, but in a relative sense, it might decrease the heat transfer of a solid plywood wall by 20-50%, which is fairly significant.

However, carpet has so much surface area that any condensation short of a tropical rainforest gets captured in the fibers, where it dampens the carpet (just a bit) and waits for dryer weather to evaporate. Manufacturers (Scamp rat fur?) have been putting carpet on the walls for 30+ years with minimal mildew issues. Just use the right carpet :)

P.S. Not to discourage the use of bubble foil insulation, but don't accept the stated R-values as valid for conductive heat transfer (no air space). They aren't accurate at all.
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby Ottsville » Wed May 09, 2018 6:10 am

Totally agree with you Andrew about using the right carpet. I have a piece of indoor/outdoor carpet(from home depot) on my shaded back porch in a high humidity area and no mildew issues in 10+ years. My concern would be putting carpet on bare or unsealed wood where the moisture captured in the carpet would pull through into the wood causing issues with the wood over time. Probably not an issue for those that live in desert areas, but for those in more humid/wet areas I would think that would be a problem long term.
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby MJWBuffalo » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:10 am

I've been reading and lurking and soaking it all in. Something I haven't seen addressed that has to do with this topic....

When using 2x 's for the roof, how long of a span can you tackle on the 1.5" side? If I am going 6'w on my trailer should I be standing them up on end to give 3.5" of support? I will have 1/4' ply top and bottom (glued and screwed) with a single aluminum sheet covering as well as a 1.5" lip on the edge to glue/screw everything down to.

thanks for the help

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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby Tomterrific » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:55 am

Personal opinion: I see most builds as too heavy and overbuilt. Mine uses 5mm Revolution ply and 1x2's for battens and roof ribs. The failure point of our box is at the roof and floor side interface so I made that strong. Very light, no strength or condensation problems. Half inch walls are the most I would need on any small camper.

Tt

I'm going to add that I am not sold on the Revolution ply and suggest 1/4" exterior ply if going the lightweight route.
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby MJWBuffalo » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:43 am

Tom,

I apologize for taking so long to respond to your post.

Due to the thickness (2"), weight and pneumatics of my awning windows, I ended up going with the double 3/4" plywood with 1/4" ply on either side. I did take the advice of pretty much everyone around here and lightened both sheets up significantly by removing unneeded material and replacing with foam insulation. I should weigh all the cuts to see how much I saved but it has to be over 60% lighter.

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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby 6wheelsgood » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:53 pm

tmoenter wrote:I made very lightweight walls using bubble insulation and dacron skins.

i really love the japanese aesthetic of this. very cool design idea for a low crime area. i'm going to give this a try for a small project.
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby green1 » Sat May 15, 2021 11:33 pm

I'm in the design phase for a new teardrop to replace our existing one. The one we have uses 3/4” plywood walls, with 2x2s connecting them to support some real thin wood sheathing of the roof and front wall, which is then covered in metal. There's also a 3/4” plywood wall between the galley and interior adding structural stability. The existing trailer also has a slide out for the foot of the bed sticking out the side of the trailer. Near as I can tell, the slideout is fully supported when extended by a frame around the inside of the slideout that rests against the edges of the opening in the 3/4” plywood.

My new trailer is destined to have a similar slideout, actually 2 of them.

My worry is that my tow vehicle has a 2000lbs limit, and I'm going to be awful tight on that. Do I dare go to 1/2” instead of 3/4” to save some weight? Or is that just begging for trouble?
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby Kuffam » Sun May 30, 2021 9:51 am

My concern with my build is weight. What is the weight difference between using 3/4" ply Skeleton vs. 2x2 framing with 1/8" ply?
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby tony.latham » Sun May 30, 2021 10:15 am

What is the weight difference between using 3/4" ply Skeleton vs. 2x2 framing with 1/8" ply?


I don't think anyone can give you a definitive answer. But it's going to be close. A few pounds. Maybe three or five?

I've built using "sticks" for an internal framework and plywood. Plywood is much less labor-intensive and gives the builder greater design flexibility.

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"Sticks":

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:thinking:

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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby 1130451B » Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:53 pm

Is it possible to build a outside shell with just 1/4 inch plywood held together with finger joints and 90 brackets, then glue 1" foam to the inside of the shell, all over the inside of the shell sans anywhere you plan on putting doors and windows, then glue down another layer of plywood interconnected with finger joints? In my mind this wold make a foam sandwich with little thermal bridging from the outter shell to the inner. Not sure if you would be strong enough...

Another thought I had was to make a frame out of laminated plywood so that the frame members where all interconnected with various tenon, finger joints, and alternating seem overlapps so that it would be 1.5" wide framing. Fill the voids with 1.5 inch foam and then skin with something really light and non structural like fiberglass cloth and resin or a thin thin plywood, fiberglass, plastic board glued down to the frame work and finished off in an encapsulation of epoxy or epoxy fiberglassing.

I am trying to get low weight out of a 12' to 16' trailer so I don't want to do solid walls of plywood. We also have winter and I would like to try it in the winter. I don't want to use metals because I don't have any tools or experience working with metal skinning. I asked a similar question on another thread here but this one seemed more on topic and well... more active.
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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby tony.latham » Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:04 pm

"Another thought I had was to make a frame out of laminated plywood so that the frame members where all interconnected with various tenon, finger joints, and alternating seem overlapps so that it would be 1.5" wide framing."

Why the joints? Plywood is already joined --so to speak.

Image

That's why I use it.



Fill the voids with 1.5 inch foam and then skin with something really light and non structural like fiberglass cloth and resin or a thin thin plywood, fiberglass, plastic board glued down to the frame work and finished off in an encapsulation of epoxy or epoxy fiberglassing.

That's sandwich wall construction --or at least when it's 3/4" thick.





:thinking: :frightened:

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Re: Wall / sides construction

Postby 1130451B » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:18 pm

Is it possible to build a outside shell with just 1/4 inch plywood held together with finger joints and 90 brackets, then glue 1" foam to the inside of the shell, all over the inside of the shell sans anywhere you plan on putting doors and windows, then glue down another layer of plywood interconnected with finger joints? In my mind this wold make a foam sandwich with little thermal bridging from the outter shell to the inner. Not sure if you would be strong enough...

Another thought I had was to make a frame out of laminated plywood so that the frame members where all interconnected with various tenon, finger joints, and alternating seem overlapps so that it would be 1.5" wide framing. Fill the voids with 1.5 inch foam and then skin with something really light and non structural like fiberglass cloth and resin or a thin thin plywood, fiberglass, plastic board glued down to the frame work and finished off in an encapsulation of epoxy or epoxy fiberglassing.

I am trying to get low weight out of a 12' to 16' trailer so I don't want to do solid walls of plywood. We also have winter and I would like to try it in the winter. I don't want to use metals because I don't have any tools or experience working with metal skinning. I asked a similar question on another thread here but this one seemed more on topic and well... more active.
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