Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby RAYVILLIAN » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:39 am

I down loaded and took a closer look at the drawing you posted and realized the other reason why I shied away from the full length hatch which is the back wall alignment. It looks like you are going to hinge the bottom wall in and make the top wall solid. Is that right? If so it looks like it should work. don't why I never thought of that. Great work. :thumbsup:
Gary
Where ever we raise the hatch is home.
Darn blank states keep getting further away and we keep traveling slower ain't never gona get this map full.
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby Pmullen503 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:23 am

Making the upper part of the back wall fixed should make the whole top stiffer too, smart! The back ends of bottom walls can be stiffened by gussets or cabinetry.
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby Bluebunny » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:12 pm

I believe that the shapes of these thin shells rely heavily on stiffness. I cannot tolerate much distortion at all. Heavy rails on the sides, the curved ply helps a lot,and rear walls in upper and lower shell BOTH FIXED. The included sketch is an attempt to illustrate...If I can get the geometry correct of the design AND the build, then the rear walls will nest without a fuss. Much like a copier paper box lid. It creates further complications, like the fan ventilator, windows, or anything else in the upper shell will have to be mounted boxed as an "outie", and anything mounted on the bottom shell will have to be mounted as an "innie". All of that seems pretty easy to address. Looks like the door knob goes back ON the door, and I'll have to figure out how to fold the door with the door knob in the way. Remove the handle I suppose - dang - then how to open door folded? I hate complications. (huh?)

As many of you may observe, I have gotten very complicated in the design and maybe the build, but I will have a very low tolerance for complication in the use and operation of this trailer. Lift and lock is the extent of the setup desired - or maybe even not lift, but crawl inside. The price to pay for standing up...hmmm... Happy Daydreams everyone! It's all part of the journey....
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby rowerwet » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:45 am

foam and plywood bond easily, TBII will stick them together well. Gorrilla glue is better for foam to foam joints (don't add water, it just foams up and makes a mess)
Adding a layer of foam to the outside of the plywood shell would be your best bet for noise/heat. skin it with TBII/cotton/paint for a tough nearly permanent skin.
I'm not sure what my mouse hull #'s are, I built 8 mice and don't really keep track.
Let me know how the RB42 build goes, I have the plans and want to build, but I want to know how she rows. I want to get back into the amature open water rowing races we have so much of up here in new england ( the blackburn challenge being my equivalent to the Boston Marathon for runners) and I want to build a competitive hull. While the rower is the real speed, the hull design has a part as well.
at least if you build boats you should understand the biggest concern in tear building, keep it light!
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby Pmullen503 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:30 pm

Bluebunny wrote:....... Looks like the door knob goes back ON the door, and I'll have to figure out how to fold the door with the door knob in the way. Remove the handle I suppose - dang - then how to open door folded? I hate complications. (huh?)
]


I believe you can find RV or even pocket door hardware that will work and be (nearly) flush with your door. What about making the lower panel hinged to swing out of the way and a second permanent wall (or even just big gussets) a few inches forward of that for rigidity. The bottom panel doesn't have to fold flat, just move enough to let the upper panel slide past it. Both halves of the door could stay mounted to their panels with some kind of connector between the top and bottom halves added once they are up. You might have to move the hinge point between the top and bottom to get the geometry right.
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby Bluebunny » Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:46 pm

Hi Folks,
Thanks to all for guiding me through the thin roof issue. I am planning on glue-and-cotton over 3/4" XPS (which I assume is that pink expanded polystyrene sheeting) using titebond2 over my 1/4" ply skin - roof deck only. This will put the top shell (using six sheets of 1/4" ply @ 40lb per sheet fully dressed) at about 250 lbs. 3/4" ain't much foam, but I have to keep the height under my 100" garage ceiling height to open up in there...I hope it is enough to satisfy-and not impossible to add more someday.

This 250 lb top shell weight will require a 180 lb brute force lift at the rear of the shell. Gas springs for this stroke run about $1200 per pair, so forget that! A single cable on a lifting hand winch is under 50 bucks, so that will be my slow and reliable lifting mechanism. I'll use a stick prop to secure the shell once it is up. Concept in attached sketch. Be aware that a boat trailer style hand winch is typically a PULLING winch, NOT a LIFTING winch. Do NOT use a pulling winch. LIFTING winches have either a built in brake or are geared to disallow the load to fall out of control.

As to the door, I have yo-yoed back to the knob and dead bolt on the WALL, with the striker going into the door. The only way that I can figure to open the door full or folded, shell up or down...

As you all can see, I ain't no artist!!

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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby RAYVILLIAN » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:53 am

How about putting the winch on one side and running 2 cables on it. One to each side and over the top of your bottom walls and down between the upper and lower side walls. that would give 2 lifting points on the hatch and get the cable out of the middle of the trailer. You could build the pulley's for the cables into the top of the wall. You also have to add a pulley on the frame at the opposite side from the winch. I've played with this idea to use on our Winter Warrior because I'm getting older and the darn hatch keeps gaining weight.

Gary
Where ever we raise the hatch is home.
Darn blank states keep getting further away and we keep traveling slower ain't never gona get this map full.
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby Bluebunny » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:39 pm

Hi Rayvillan, Thank you, I really desired only one cable to lift the top clam-shell, but it looks to interfere with my doorway. So two lifting cables likely required. I wanted to avoid two and avoid the requirement to "tune" the two cable tensions. Either tune with turnbuckles or maybe use an equalizing yoke to a single winch cable...

I laid out my two tow vehicles turning radius. The tightest turner is my Golf. The picture shows the rig as if I drove it (forward) into the tightest circle possible, forming a 56 degree angle with the trailer. Is this the angle to plan around? Have I allowed enough clearance? So long as I don't back up too sharply or jackknife? This will be the first thing I check when I get the deck plate cut.
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Another question; most of the TD's here have been shown with structural wood framing under the deck plate. Cannot I mount the deck plate directly to the trailer frame? What am I missing here?
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby OP827 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:49 pm

On the question for deck framing - it really depends on what your frame has in oder to support the deck. I got frame from coleman tent trailer and I do not need any framing, just 3/4" or 5/8" plywood works with acceptable floor deflection. I see many guys do overbuild with their floor framing. If you have bigger than 2 ft span, then some framing or torsion box panel may be needed. You can always test by putting the plywood on the frame and see if you can stand on it and how much deflection it gets under the traffic area. That is what I did with my frame, hope it helps.
My foldable foam trailer build: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=61344
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby RAYVILLIAN » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:20 am

The nose on our present WW is similar to yours and I've never jack knifed in a tight forward turn, even as tight as my truck can turn. don't know if I could jack knife backwards I haven't so far. that is with a silverado your car might turn tighter I'm sure the golfcart can.
On the floor I agree most people over build here a bit. I've always used 3/4" plywood in standing areas though I tried a 3/4" stick frame and foam floor in the none standing area on WW 2. NOt sure that i like it though, give a bit in the one spot that I do stand. If you do a drop floor I do recommend that you put some angle bracing under the drop floor. I used glue and screws on the first WW and had the drop floor drop during a 3 A.M. potty trip. Not a pleasant surprise. :shock:

Gary
Where ever we raise the hatch is home.
Darn blank states keep getting further away and we keep traveling slower ain't never gona get this map full.
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby rowerwet » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:47 pm

Most people waste a bunch of weight on a sub-frame of lumber that simply goes between the frame and the floor. The only time this could make sense is for a tear meant to be used in winter conditions, in that case the sub frame allows thick insulation.
3/4" ply is fine, if you find an area that flexes badly, glue a 1x2 on edge, under the floor, to span the area that is flexing. Fully glued this will become very stiff, it doesn't even need to be tied to the frame, just but against it.
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby OP827 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:16 pm

You were questioning if the foam can be glued to plywood. I had glued a foam piece 90 degree to plywood a few months ago with Titebond II glue and then put it to destructive test and the result looked like this:


Image


As you can see it was quite difficult to separate and after bending the foam the failure was over the foam, not the glue line. Now it should be noted that this piece was butt glued to fresh cut of the foam. So when I laminate the foam face, I need to make sure that the surface is free of any grease, clean and it is thoroughly sanded, because the pink foam comes with some coating that would not stick to glue until it is sanded off, which is very easy to do.
My foldable foam trailer build: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=61344
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby Bluebunny » Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:34 pm

Thanks OP! I noticed which one broke....:laughter: ...So my first foray into foam will be to flat glue sheets of it to the exterior roof ply.

Am I to assume the steps would be:
1. lightly rasp, then blow off the foam sheet face
2. roll out titebond II onto the foam face
3. roll out titebond II onto the ply face
4. Let them "breathe" a bit
5. Stickem together tightly
6. Somehow clamp them securely (vacuum bag?)
7. Hope for a tight and complete cure.
8. roll out titebond II on the outside of the resultant ply/foam roof
9. apply a good thread-count cloth (muslin or light canvas?)
10 get the edges prettified
11. cure
12. Paint with good exterior house paint
......Am I close?

Not much trailer activity of late - distracted by boats...built a scale model of an 18ft RB42 rowboat, but wifey wants a proper Kayak. SO will build her an 13 ft Toto Kayak starting this weekend - no foam!-in Ply!
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby OP827 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:52 pm

Looks good :thumbsup: , except I would skip this step "4. Let them "breathe" a bit" as titebond glue sets quick and gluing wet surfaces is important.
My foldable foam trailer build: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=61344
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Re: Standing clam-shell mousetrip sleeper

Postby rowerwet » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:51 am

I built a larsboat last year, while it is in ply, I used foam to make the bulkheads. Check out the tandem kayak link. I love the boat and plan on a Toto for one of my kids, only he is going to build it!
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