Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

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Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby ChesterCamp5x9.5x6 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:48 pm

I started thinking about DIY campers a year ago (Sept, 2018), and discovered tnttt a few months later. I started thinking about a 6x14, but I didn't want to pay for the gas to tow even a foamie. I recently settled on a 5 x 9.5 x 6 (inside dimensions), constructed as a foam on frame, but still trying to keep the weight reasonable. I started the build on Oct. 4th, 2019, and most might say I should have the trailer on hand before I start, but I haven't even ordered an aluminum Ultra-Tow 5 x 8 (182 lb.). I am calling it a foam on frame because it is a telescopic style, like some jewelry boxes, and I felt the structural rigidity of a frame was worth the cost of weighty wood. The lifting mechanism will be a single scissors jack in the center of the roof, to keep it simple, and I can lift the Top Box in two stages. The Top Box will be guided up and down with four corner vertical PVC pipe guides, one pipe (whole) mounter to wiggle a little, and a second larger fixed one (split it half lengthwise) to ride over it. I'm stretching the length to 9 1/2 feet long inside on an 8 foot trailer, with about 10 inches overhanging the back, and extended a similar amount in the front, using the space normally allotted to a tongue box, which I am giving up, in favor of more interior space. Nylon straps over the top, front and back, will secure the Top Box raised or lowered, supported inside with removable posts in the four corners, and I'm hoping to be able to line up the raised Top Box to use four corner bolts, as well, when raised. :thinking:
5 x 9.5 x 6 I.D. Foam on Frame on 5 x 8 alum Ultra-Tow trailer, eventually with a Prius TV.
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby rjgimp » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:14 am

Wow, that's an ambitious design! Welcome to the nuthouse. :beer: Of course, since you've been lurking around here for some time you are aware of our general desire for plenty of... :pictures: :pictures: :pictures:
-Rob


I hope to make it to a Procrastinators Anonymous meeting someday...
just as soon as the steering committee gets around to scheduling one!
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby ChesterCamp5x9.5x6 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:27 pm

Well thanks Rob. I have posted several build pictures in the gallery. I think I want to assemble the frame together temporarily, to test the fit, guide alignment, and the lift. Then take it apart to add the foam. I think some areas of the roof, for instance, will get fiberglass insulation batt, in the odd place.
5 x 9.5 x 6 I.D. Foam on Frame on 5 x 8 alum Ultra-Tow trailer, eventually with a Prius TV.
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby lee senn » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:30 pm

Off to a good start , looking forward to following your build. Lee and Norma
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby ChesterCamp5x9.5x6 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:59 am

Well, I'm a month and a day into my build, and I just completed a successful lift test of the scissors jack, the inner (Bottom) box, the outer (Top) box, and the Schedule 40 PVC guide system. I did it without building the door or rear wall for the Top Box, by temporarily making an 'X' brace at the back end. I decided to use PVC Pipes for the supports at each corner. One set of four is 34" long, so at Full Lift, the inside height is 72+ inches, and 17" supports will make 55+ inches ceiling height, at the First Stage lift. I expect this mid-point height will be handy on cold nights, like a conventional teardrop. In addition to the support pipes, I'm using 6 inch carriage bolts at the travel height, mid-points, and full lift spots. The carriage bolts will be around the perimeter, with torque washers on the inside, and flat washers on the outside. I will build mounting points, and drill more holes for four more carriage bolts- (the two mid-points on the long walls, the mid-point of the front wall, and at the rear door, once I build the rear door and rear wall). Then I need to disassemble the outside Top Box panels so they can get XPS foam insulation, as well as the roof, and Bottom Box. 11/32" plywood will be the ceiling, and 15/32" plywood will be the floor, on top of 1 1/2" XPS, likely framed with 2x3 floor sills. I could use some advice for the floor. There's about 10 inches overhang on the rear, past the trailer frame. I just posted a bunch of pictures in my gallery. I like to caption them right on the picture, rather than use the description form provided.
5 x 9.5 x 6 I.D. Foam on Frame on 5 x 8 alum Ultra-Tow trailer, eventually with a Prius TV.
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby ChesterCamp5x9.5x6 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:26 am

I ordered an Ultra-Tow 5x8 Alum trailer from Northern tool, thru ebay, on November 14th. I read several posts on the subject of Trailer Kit Deliveries, and decided that a Lift-Gate was not necessary, since the shipment was in 3 boxes, 268 lb, (186 lb trailer weight), and some posts implied that it would be easily managed without the $85 Lift-Gate service, so I declined it, with the order. Two days ago, on Nov 21st, I got an email, that it would be delivered that day, November 21st, but it was not out for delivery yet. I decided to call YRC Freight, and specify, and pay for Lift-Gate service. The YRC clerk checked to see if my longest 8 foot package would make lift-gate service ineligible. She was not sure if the cut-off was 8 feet, or 9 feet. Turned out to be 8 feet, so I could not use it. Fine, I had not paid for it anyway. The freight drivers are not required to help unload, so I would need to find a helper, because it is not a one man job. I scheduled the Delivery for this coming Tuesday, Nov 26, between 10 am and 2 pm. My neighbor ultimately declined to help, so I posted a gig on craigslist for $5, and found someone within a half hour, and I offered $80 for completion of the job only. If he gets bored or called away early, he gets zero. I will set my camera on time-lapse on Tuesday, and post delivery pictures that day.
5 x 9.5 x 6 I.D. Foam on Frame on 5 x 8 alum Ultra-Tow trailer, eventually with a Prius TV.
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby RJ Howell » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:09 pm

I would ask that you post those pictures as you explain what you're doing. This is a unique lift build that a few have attempted. I'd love to 'fully' understand what you're doing. You can easily insert a gallery picture in your text and show us (well me..) what and explain how.

I'm almost ready to start my 'next' build and also will do a lifted roof. I'm inclined to just pop the roof vs. lift walls and all.. Again, would love to really get a good idea of what you're doing. :twisted:
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby tony.latham » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:21 pm

I would ask that you post those pictures as you explain what you're doing. This is a unique lift build...


I'll second that motion.

Tony
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby ChesterCamp5x9.5x6 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:13 pm

I have posted 44 pictures previously in my gallery, but I pick a few and post them here. I think the best term for it is foam on frame, which I have been using. I did not have the courage to go foam only, to save every bit of weight. I elected to make a wood frame, and I hope I have not used too much wood. I would be happy with 1200 lbs, as a 5 wide by 9.5 long by 6 ft high (all dimensions inside), on a 5x8 alum trailer. I feel like a pioneer, because I can only cite four examples- 1) the European DIY Wooden Widget Plans- which is a summer only tent alternative. 2) the Hi-Lo, which is out of business, then resurrected, and 3) the Canadian TNTTTer who built a 5x10 Foamie with air compressor lifting mechanism, and took his family across Canada. 4) The Australian sea-green colored build, which might be most similar to mine.

I decided that a foam only roof and 4 walls lift was too risky as my first build, so I am doing a foam on frame design. I was originally counting the weight of every piece, but I plan to tow it with a Prius (that is another story). I am mainly using 1x3 furring strips, and 2x2s. I have 2x4s on the roof because I need roof strength to be able to lift the 4 walls. I considered a linear actuator in each corner, but between the $400+ cost, and required 12v power (or I am stuck). I decided on a KISS 2.5 ton, single lift point, scissors jack. I believe in insulation, so I am putting 2.5 inches in the lower box, 3 inches in the upper wall, 3.5-4 inches in the roof, and probably 1.5 inches in the floor. I have maxed out the width at 62 inches wide for the lower box, just inside the fenders, and added 18 inches past the trailer frame, eliminating space for a traditional tongue box. I am crazy enough to heat it with an ammo can pellet stove, thru a proper stove jack, and vented with a titanium chimney. I think I will just paint the inside foam walls with enough coats of TB2 to harden them, and use Thompsons Water Seal Clear on the exposed pine. I wish I could use fiberglass cloth with Glidden Gripper, for instance, for the exterior, but I found no one who has done that. I guess choice numbers 2 and 3 for the exterior, would be 2) nylon screen and Glidden Gripper, or 3) drop cloth or bed sheet with GG.

These selected pictures are from my Gallery of a couple of weeks ago, of my lift test (no rear upper wall) or foam yet.

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http://www.tnttt.com/gallery/image.php?album_id=5046&image_id=160065

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http://www.tnttt.com/gallery/image.php?album_id=5046&image_id=160073

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http://www.tnttt.com/gallery/image.php?album_id=5046&image_id=160076

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http://www.tnttt.com/gallery/image.php?album_id=5046&image_id=160082

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http://www.tnttt.com/gallery/image.php?album_id=5046&image_id=160083

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http://www.tnttt.com/gallery/image.php?album_id=5046&image_id=160087

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http://www.tnttt.com/gallery/image.php?album_id=5046&image_id=160088

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http://www.tnttt.com/gallery/image.php?album_id=5046&image_id=160089
5 x 9.5 x 6 I.D. Foam on Frame on 5 x 8 alum Ultra-Tow trailer, eventually with a Prius TV.
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby ChesterCamp5x9.5x6 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:20 pm

Sorry. This my first time posting within a Post. They all look to be the same image, but it you click on each code line, instead of the image, each picture displays properly.
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby ChesterCamp5x9.5x6 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:18 am

I took delivery of the Ultra-Tow Trailer Kit Tues, Nov 26th. YRC said I could not order the lift-gate service for $85 because one of my boxes was 8 ft long. Since I was not sure what to expect, I hired a helper, who waited during the 10am to 2 pm window, The truck arrived at 3:20 pm, and the dispatcher apologized because I was the next town over, and should have been first. If you can manage to unload a 104 lb box down to the ground, alone or together, no lift-gate is necessary, but the driver is not required to help.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby ChesterCamp5x9.5x6 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:49 pm

ChesterCamp 01 092520 640x480.jpg
Back End 09/25/2020
ChesterCamp 01 092520 640x480.jpg (214.68 KiB) Viewed 97 times
Well, Gentlemen: It has been nearly a year :( since I have posted on my TNTTT page, but life has gotten in the way of life. My wife's health deteriorated by December, and I spent 24/7 taking care of her, and the project was put on hold. In late April, she went into a Skilled Nursing Facility. On June 18th, she had an above the knee amputation, and on July 10th, she went into a different Long-Term Facility, so she will not be coming home. I spent July and August gathering documents to apply for Medicaid, and with the aid of professional help, we only had to Private Pay for 7 weeks of Nursing Home Care, and I survived with most of my Net Worth intact. Get professional help so you won't have to spend yourself broke, to qualify for Medicaid. We submitted documentation on August 20th, and are expecting a favorable reply from the state of Rhode Island. Also, get a MOLST Form and Power of Attorney completed well ahead of time, like I did not. I am applying for Guardianship, as my last resort.

Since April, I have been able to work on the trailer, but I'll still miss the October 4th deadline of one year, but I'm 95% there, at least. I've taken pictures a long the way, but I'll cut to the chase today, and show you shots only from today.

My canvas looked fine when I was done applying, but 24 house later, it was wavy- not enough TB II, or I was too slow. I made lemonade out of lemons, and devoted a month to painting flag designs on all 8 walls! Yes! Two boxes times 2.

I planned on a nice 18 inch round laminated table top from H-D for the center of the ceiling as the support point for the jack, since the ceiling is 1/2 inch foam, but the weight of the back doors-- each with a 1/2 inch layer of plywood for security, forced the lift point back more than a foot- to under the insulated skylight. I had already planned on a 12 x 36 laminated board as a removable work table against the door, so now it does double duty and is the lift support under the skylight! In the end, I decided on KISS- Keep it simple, stupid! I never found a YouTube video detailing how someone actually used linear actuators to accomplish this lift. They would have been $100x4 plus whatever, required electricity, and might not have worked. I only have to satisfy myself. the first third of the lift takes some effort, but the rest is easy. The sonotube (a cardboard tube 8 inches in diameter for pouring concretes piers), stores easily in the front corner, doubles as a wash basin, and will hold trash or round water jugs, or grey water jugs. The jack mounts vertically on its own support at the back door. I left the jack in place for these pictures, but in reality, once I am up the the desired height, the jack and the support tube, each store in their corners, out of the way. There are 4 sticks-- one in each corner, to support the roof. The second lift-- from 17 inches to 34 inches is accomplished with the remaining section of the original 4 foot long sonotube, that is set on top of the taller tube, and the jack on top of that. The shorter tube is simply the cut-off, and it doubles as my toilet! The jack lifts 17 inches, and it takes two lifts to get to 34 inches, for a total inside height of 6 feet, 1 inch. (I am only 5 feet, 6 inches). I have only lifted it 12 inches, and 17 inches, so far. 17 is the limit of my garage, giving 56 inches inside height, and 12 inches gives 51 inches inside height. I like 12 inches as a cold weather height- less cu ft to heat. All this means I have to carry 4) 12 inch wooden sticks, 4) 17 inch PVC pipes, and 4) 34 inch PVC pipes. (Whatever that weight is, it would have to be added to the dry weight, that is detailed in the weight paragraph below. Whether traveling or stationary, I have two over-the-roof slings and ratcheting straps to hold the top box down securely.

I have a slide out PVC rack with two poles, mounted on the roof, that accommodated a separate 10 x 12 tarp, with 2 feet side and back overhang, for shade and rain cover. There is also a MaxxAire 10 speed reversing fan in the front ceiling section.

I followed directions on YouTube to use two bathroom scales at 146 lb, and 153 lb, using a 3:1 lever beam under each tire, and came up with 905 lbs. I added in the weight of the jack and wrench, (13), which I had to use to lift the trailer frame, and 130 lb for the tongue jack to get to 1,048 lbs. :) (I made sure that both tires and the tongue jack were all supported to level for the trailer, to get the best weight). I understand bathroom scales are only an approximation, but I am happy with 1,048 lb. I expected 1,100-1,200. Tongue weight is on the money, at 12.4%. At the beginning of construction, I added length to the trailer, front and back, in the same proportion as the H-F trailer axle to the 8 foot length, to account for weight distribution. Now I worry about it being back heavy, since the two doors have disturbed the center lift point backwards, so I have a small accommodation on the limited tongue area, to carry extra weight on the tongue, if it wants to fishtail.
Attachments
ChesterCamp 03 092520 640x480.jpg
Jack Lifter on Sonotube, like crank, forget Torque Drill
ChesterCamp 03 092520 640x480.jpg (202.67 KiB) Viewed 97 times
ChesterCamp 02 092520 640x480.jpg
3 inch thick Back Doors, each with two Deadbolts
ChesterCamp 02 092520 640x480.jpg (225.99 KiB) Viewed 97 times
5 x 9.5 x 6 I.D. Foam on Frame on 5 x 8 alum Ultra-Tow trailer, eventually with a Prius TV.
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby ChesterCamp5x9.5x6 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:56 pm

My original plan to heat the trailer was a homemade ammo can stove burning pellets, so I framed a 12 inch square hole, visible in the upper right of the middle picture of my previous post. I later decided that my trailer was very well insulated, and did not need a hot fire. I needed to calculate how much heat I needed. I found a site online that calculates the required BTUs to heat a greenhouse. It uses three variables-- square feet of exterior walls, their heat index, (calculated as 1 divided by the R Value, if known), and the temperature differential. They said do not include the ground area of the greenhouse, but I decided to add in my floor area-- since it is exposed.
AREA:
My ceiling area is 6 x 9.5 = 57 sq ft
My floor area is 5 x 9.5 = 47 sq ft
My side wall area (lifted 12 inches for cold weather, 51 inches height) is 4.2 x 9.5 x 2 = 80 sq ft
My front and back walls are 4.2 x 5 x 2 = 32 sq ft
Total = 226 sq ft
R VALUE:
The walls are 3 inch, (0.5+2+0.5), foam panels, R = 15
The walls are 3.5 inch fiberglass insulation, R = 13
The roof is 0.5 inch foam panel, ceiling, R=2.5, 3.5 inch fiberglass insulation, (middle layer), R=13, 1 inch foam panel, R=7.5, Total=20.5
Median R value=15+13+20.5=48.5, 48.5 divided by 3=16.16, so their Heat Index is 1 divided by 16 = 0.06188
TEMPERATURE DIFFERENTIAL:
If I want to raise the temperature from 20 degrees outside to 60 degrees inside, that is 40 degrees.
THEIR FORMULA:
226 x .06188 x 40 = 559 BTUs are required.
That does not seam to be a lot, since BTUs divided by 3.142 = watts, and 559 divided by 3.142 = 178 watts (less than the smallest commonly available 200 watt, 120 volt electric heater). This is very manageable for someone on shore power at a friends house, or an RV park, or for someone with a 100 Amp Hour Lithium Battery, who wants to spend 25% of their capacity, 23 ah (1.67 amps x 15% inverter loss=1.92 amps per hour), for 12 hours of heat from a small 200 watt heater.
The problem for a potential boondocker like myself, is that I now only have a 85 AmpHour AGM battery from a friend, and 23 ah is 54% of my usable capacity, (85 divided by 2=42.5 ah). I am going to use the AGM, for now.
MY HEATER ALTERNATIVE:
I have long dis-trusted the overstated tealight candle heaters BTU claims, as they only put out 33.8 watts, or 106 BTUs each.
Well, I am not going to use 6 tealights. They would not get me thru the night!
But, if I had a stronger candle-like flame, that would last 8 to 10 hours, that might work!
Ordinary candles produce about 40 to 100 watts, so if I could get 45 watts from each of four flames, I would have more than enough BTUs. Remember, the greenhouse calculator says I need 559 BTUs, to get a 40 degree differential. 45 watts from each flame would total 180 watts = 565 BTUs. (6 more than I need).

The Candlier camping Lantern uses three candles, and a spring push-up mechanism that lasts about nine hours. The company makes outrageous claims about BTU output, saying that their 3 beeswax version puts out 5,000 BTUs! The candles are expensive, so some people have made their own candles that fit the mechanism, and some people have converted them to use very clean burning, but expensive, ($29 per gallon), lantern oil, and the best is FireFly brand.

I like the FireFly oil conversion idea, myself, but I want to install four flames in a 4 inch diameter, 16.5 inch tall aluminum stove pipe, with 3 small (2.5 inch diameter), terra cotta flower pots suspended above the flames, and a forth 4 inch diameter pot at the top, to block and redirect the heat out the sides. The oil lantern conversions using 4) 50 ml Titos Handcrafted Vodka nips last about 8-9 hours. 1.5 oz per bottle uses 6 oz of fuel per night, at a cost of $1.36 per night, ($41.36 per month). Throw in some fuel for 1 or 2 bottles during the chilly days, and perhaps some for cooking, (because there is a 7.5 inch tall pipe cut-off that could be a pot stand, since the 4) bottles come out in a unit because they are hot-melt glued to a removable tuna can). When the fuel arrives, I will try frying an egg. The stove pipe idea comes from a fellow in Australia, who heats his teardrop with this arrangement, expect he uses methanol fuel in a trangia style backpackers stove. He vents 12 square inches, and gets zero on his carbon-monoxide detector, but the liquid fuel itself, is very dangerous to humans.

I have just made my unit, and the fuel is on order, and I need to find a 4 inch terra cotta pot for the top, too, but here it is!
Attachments
Candlier and TOP VIEW My 3 small pots 640x360 09252020.jpg
Top View my heater left, and Four strong flames from 4 Tito's burning FireFly oil.
Candlier and TOP VIEW My 3 small pots 640x360 09252020.jpg (186.1 KiB) Viewed 79 times
OilHeater 02 09252020 480x640.jpg
4) Tito's bottles with doubled wicks (Peaches and Creame worsted 2.5 oz )(Walmart)
OilHeater 02 09252020 480x640.jpg (250.77 KiB) Viewed 79 times
OilHeater 01 09252020 480x640.jpg
My Oil heater 4x16.5 inch stove pipe, and 4) Toto's Vodka bottles
OilHeater 01 09252020 480x640.jpg (232.42 KiB) Viewed 79 times
5 x 9.5 x 6 I.D. Foam on Frame on 5 x 8 alum Ultra-Tow trailer, eventually with a Prius TV.
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby rjgimp » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:14 pm

Cue all the well intended folks who have zero confidence you have thought this through and fully believe you will DIE from asphyxiation within an hour of setting up camp for the first time due to the open flames in 3...2...1...

:roll:
-Rob


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just as soon as the steering committee gets around to scheduling one!
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Re: Newbie from RI, building for three weeks.

Postby pchast » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:14 pm

I'll bite...... It can be a problem if you don't wake up in the morning.............
Open flames can be bad without enough ventilation. :thinking:
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