Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Converting Cargo Trailers into TTTs

Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:51 am

I think mine are going to take forever to top balance... to speed up the process, put them in 12v configuration and ran the Lithium charger on it. It pulled about 26amps until one cell started the climb. It got to 4.2Vdc before I realized what was going on. Wasn't there long , hope I didn't hurt it. It did settle right back to 3.33Vdc as the rest of them.

Lesson learned.. if you are going to charge like that.. put the BMS on it.

I am in no hurry, so I put the lab supply back on it and it is drawing 3.85A. I am sure it will do that until the cells start to climb towards 3.6V.

If it does not climb in a day or two more, I am going to put the BMS on and quick charge. Didn't think about it too much, but in parallel, these are 3.33V at 1120aH.. so even if the batteries were mostly full.. it could take days at this rate.

Just learning my way around these LiFePo4 batteries. Interesting is that if I put my PS on 3.3V, it does not draw current, but that makes sense on the PS since it does not see a load. These batteries have such a flat curve before the get full and voltage climbs. That is why they need to slightly overcharge at 3.6V.

Also... good example of why BMS is needed and why the need to be balanced.. one battery got full first and voltage climbed too high while others stayed at 3.3V. BMS would have shut that down.. glad the Progessive Dynamics halted charging and cut of current at 14.4 volts as it was suppose to before I noticed.

Which leads me to another dilemma... do not want solar to charge directly on batteries without going through BMS, but with a common port BMS, I am wondering if it totally cuts power in certain cases because the Solar Charger needs 12vdc to run and regulate the solar power coming in from the array. Could hurt the Solar Charger.. hmmmm?

Maybe should have got a BMS with separate charge ports, but then the Shunt and battery monitor would never pick up on the solar charging and coulomb count will always be off and state of charge wrong?

In the CTC I am going to hook up solar to charge through BMS on common port unless I find out otherwise. I'd think the case with solar charger being online with the BMS cutting off ground return would be extremely rare. Not sure how the off the shelf LiFePo4 batteries are configured, but they must be common port as the only come with 2 terminals.



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Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:45 pm

Still waiting on Top Balance. In meantime, I decided on how I will encapsulate the batteries. Using a Group 27 Marine battery case. Put 2 terminals on top and mounting BMS in lid.



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Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby bdosborn » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:59 am

Did you get the Bluetooth dongle to work? I bought a 30A Daly Smart BMS and was threw it in the spare parts box after I couldn't get the Bluetooth to work.

Bruce
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby bdosborn » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:10 am

flboy wrote:Maybe should have got a BMS with separate charge ports, but then the Shunt and battery monitor would never pick up on the solar charging and coulomb count will always be off and state of charge wrong?


I would stay with what you've got. While it's not ideal to disconnect charging when you reach battery low voltage, it is prudent to disconnect everything till you figure out what went wrong. That way you don't risk the parasitic draw of the charger killing your battery (in case something goes wrong when you're not around). And having an accurate battery meter is more important then maintaining charging, IMHO. It should be easy enough to connect the charger around the BMS to wake it back up and charge temporarily. Ideally, the BMS shouldn't ever disconnect the battery but if it does, I'd rather the BMS shut down everything.

Bruce
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:45 am

Thanks Bruce.. I was concerned if the BMS shuts off and solar power is on array. Not good if solar charger does not have supply voltage and solar present.

In any case, I am having trouble with my BMS. Does not appear to be working. Dealing with Chinese Customer support is painful.

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Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:14 pm

Batteries finally top balanced, but cannot get BMS to work. Working on replacement.

Good news that trailer estimate to complete is April 30. First time I got a committed date. They have the parts. Yay!

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Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:56 am

Figured out what was happening with BMS. They send no instructions, but I was able to activate it by hooking up a charger to it ( thanks Google search) Bluetooth then came up and I could see a low temp fault. BmS thought it was at -40c. I was able to spoof the thermocouple input with a resistor and all came alive. I assumed the thermocouple was on the board and the input is not labeled. Chinese seller did not send thermocouple..

In any case, I asked them to send that. This BMS is nice with all parameters available on smartphone app.

Now I can built the cells into case, install shunt and capacity test.

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Last edited by flboy on Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:06 pm

bdosborn wrote:Did you get the Bluetooth dongle to work? I bought a 30A Daly Smart BMS and was threw it in the spare parts box after I couldn't get the Bluetooth to work.

Bruce
I did get it to work.With all sense lines connected to battery, you have to put a charger on the P- input with B- on battery - to activate apparently.. but nothing like that in the instructions they sent which are very poor. Since my batteries were top balanced, the 14.4 volts on lab supply was not enough difference to activate, so I ramped up to 14.8V and all of a sudden, everything came alive.. then I could see the low temperature faults . That put me on to figuring out what the unlabeled connectors were for.

Did you activate and still not have any Bluetooth?

I ordered another BMS assuming this one was bad and it would take weeks to haggle with supplier. Ordered from another supplier and will still take a few weeks to get from China. In this case, I will have a spare or possibly build another 280aH battery if I find a screaming good deal on cells.



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Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby bdosborn » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:06 pm

Doh, I didn't try charging through it! I'll get mine out of the parts pile and give it a shot. Thanks for the 411!
Bruce
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby bdosborn » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:50 pm

Success! Damn, I almost $h!tcanned it, I was so disgusted with it. Thanks for the tip! :thumbsup:
Image

Now to experiment with it, I'm thinking of using it for the CALB CA battery in the trailer. I would use it to turn a Victron Smart BatteryProtect off and disconnect the charger. My Iota charger voltage goes a bit higher than I would like but its not adjustable.

Bruce
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:29 pm

Glad the tip helped. That was my problem. I couldn't get BT to come up and tell me what was wrong. Once I figured that out, I could see the problem and fixed it. In any case, here is the finished product. 280aH in a group 27 case. Going to capacity test it later today. I already suspect the positive lead will need to be replaced with same gage as BMS lead. It appears to be slightly smaller.


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Last edited by flboy on Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:28 pm

Running the capacity tests on the cell. Using a 750W load through the inverter. Will let it run until the BMS shuts it down or the low voltage monitor in the Inverter shuts it off.

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Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
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flboy
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:30 pm

Going to pull the Oscilloscope out and get a pic of the sinewave under load. Someone was asking me about that. I will have to go see who asked.

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Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:48 pm

featherliteCT1 wrote:flboy,

Have you tested your WZRELB 1500W Pure Sine Inverter with your oscillator to see how clean the output wave is under load? I have been watching youtube reviews of "pure" sine wave inverters and notice that some have dirty output.
Here you go. I only have 1x probes so I cannot show you the whole wave, but you can see under load it has some noise, but is still a good sinewave shape and that is what you are looking for. This is the top half. The bottom half looks the same.

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Image

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Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
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flboy
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Re: Flboy - Custom 6x12 Off-Road Toy Hauler Conversion

Postby flboy » Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:18 pm

I got the full 280aH out of the LifePo4 battery bank!! It was still running with the lowest cell being 2.9V @280aH when I turned everything off. BMS will shut off at 2.5V.. so there was more capacity, but the curve gets steep at that point, so probably not much more. I have about $600 in this build and I couldn't be happier. Getting 280aH of useable battery at a cost that is almost better than Lead Acid batteries and weighs 25% of the SLA battery bank. Simply amazing and very affordable if you build your own. Buying 280aH of batteries already built up in the typical form factor will cost between $600 and $950 per 100aH, so you'd have almost $2,000 in it at the low end with questionable BMS and etc... And this battery has Bluetooth monitoring of all its parameters and there is no maintenance!... Awesome!

If you have the time to wait for the cells to come from China (3 to 4 months by boat) and don't mind assuming some risk on performance... I'd encourage you to build your own bank.

I did circle back and edit all the protection parameters in the BMS to the parameters listed by EVE Batteries (mfg) for these specific prismatic cells. Should ensure long life with electrical and temperature protection limits.



Image
Don (Flboy)

YouTube Video of Finished 6x12 Trailer:
https://youtu.be/6_-8cVdWUIA
YouTube Video of 7*18 with 2ft V-nose Trailer:
https://youtu.be/MUcMM86LA2g
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flboy
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