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Re: New Proline conversion coming...

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:13 pm
by hankaye
deceiver, Howdy;

I like your concept with the a/c unit. I'd suggest getting some 4" flexible ducting
and using the box you've constructed attaching something like this;
http://www.homedepot.com/p/10-in-x-3-1- ... /100129949
to help funnel the air instead of trapping it in the box. Do you know someone in the
heating and cooling business? They could make you a custome stack boot for not to much $'s.

hank

Re: New Proline conversion coming...

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:19 pm
by deceiver
hankaye wrote:deceiver, Howdy;

I like your concept with the a/c unit. I'd suggest getting some 4" flexible ducting
and using the box you've constructed attaching something like this;
http://www.homedepot.com/p/10-in-x-3-1- ... /100129949
to help funnel the air instead of trapping it in the box. Do you know someone in the
heating and cooling business? They could make you a custome stack boot for not to much $'s.

hank



Thanks, but to go to all that work when the air is blowing out about 4 feet straight up from the floor, especially when I release the pressure by venting air out with my ceiling fan might not be necessary. This ac unit is a once in a blue moon thing. Not much call for AC when I camp but when you do need it, you need it. Thanks for the comment.

Re: New Proline conversion coming...

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:22 pm
by m.colley
deceiver wrote:
m.colley wrote:
deceiver wrote:When I tried the AC before installation I turned the AC unit on and no matter how hot the air was the output was cold air. I thought that I could keep it simple buy not recirculating.


Deciever,
Herein lies the the root of your problem, and there are multiple issues. The 3" hose is one, the no return air recirculating is another. Right now what you have created is basically the same thing as one of the portable AC units. The are numerous threads on this forum as to how well they DON'T work and why they don't work. The only difference being your unit sits outside.

Martin


Are you sure? Being outside means the heat from the exchanger stays outside. This morning the temperature outside the camper was 81, inside it was 84 degrees. I put the unit on and turned on the fan to draw the air in through the ac hose. An hour later this is the temperature on the indoor/outdoor thermometer. And I can feel the cold air being pushed by the AC and pulled by the ceiling fan. The air is cold from the hose. The air outside is hot. If this is impossible to make work then I guess I'll take it. But, I know I don't know everything. I'd like to know why it doesn't work. I don't have an indoor portable unit here. It's outdoors. And yes it does produce a lot of moisture on the ground, just like a dehumidifier. And I know it's coming from the outside air. Doesn't matter as long as it's outside.

DSC00495.jpg


your right the heat from the exchanger stays outside BUT, that is the air that cools the condenser coil. The return for the evaporator coil is right below your air hose which is also outside. The evaporator return needs to be able to pull air from inside your trailer to cool properly. As it is right now your trying to cool the outside ambient air which is a lot higher in temperature than the interior air it would be trying to cool if your unit was hooked up / moving air correctly.

Its not impossible to get your your unit working better you just need another hose and plenum box attached to the return side of your AC. Be forewarned, the 3" hose your attempting to use now is not going to move enough air through either the supply or return without boosting the airflow up quite a bit. It would be easier to use a larger hose, preferably a 5" or 6" hose. Keep them as short and straight as possible or you'll defeat the purpose of increasing the hose size. If your hose isn't large enough you'll have issues with your coil freezing up.


Martin

Re: New Proline conversion coming...

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:29 am
by lrrowe
deceiver wrote:
lrrowe wrote:In my posts on my CT AC hack efforts, i used 4in tubing and I recirculated the cooled air pumped into the trailer. I also added two fans on each duct to help the air movement. On the hot days of July, I was never really happy with the cooling results. During our recent camping trip at Fort Chiswell, my system did not even keep up with the cooler night ait temps.

Then my wife got sick afterwards with issues with her lungs which her first doctor questioned if it was from the hacked AC unit which I keep on the ground when used (mold, mildew, ??). I do not believe this to be so but to be safe as she was hit pretty severely with the lung issue, I am scrapping the whole AC hack idea and putting the unit in the walls just like a window unit.

I will post pictures and more issues with the plenum box I built in my build thread over the next few days. I will add that after just a few hours of being installed the "typical" unkacked way, the results were significantly better.



When I tried the AC before installation I turned the AC unit on and no matter how hot the air was the output was cold air. I thought that I could keep it simple buy not recirculating. The hose and ac are dry right now. I hope I don't run into the same thing you did with the possibility of mold. We won't be using it much and I think I can keep it fairly clean. Thanks for the tip. Looking forward to your pictures.


Photos posted at http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=61777&start=240

Re: New Proline conversion coming...

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:56 pm
by Augie Dog
I have been following you build from start until now. You have done exactly what I want to do. KISS...keep it simple silly (don't use the word stupid too demeaning). My build is for camping only. We are tent camping and I want to replace the tent with a CT, only bigger. My goal is to set up as if we were using the tent but will have the comfort of a real bed and no set up / tear down. What are you using as stabilizers on your trailer. If you mentioned it I missed it. I am in North Carolina and would have liked to checked your trailer out when you were passin through. Anyway "Happy Trails To You"! :beer: :beer:

Re: New Proline conversion coming...

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:05 am
by deceiver
Augie Dog wrote:I have been following you build from start until now. You have done exactly what I want to do. KISS...keep it simple silly (don't use the word stupid too demeaning). My build is for camping only. We are tent camping and I want to replace the tent with a CT, only bigger. My goal is to set up as if we were using the tent but will have the comfort of a real bed and no set up / tear down. What are you using as stabilizers on your trailer. If you mentioned it I missed it. I am in North Carolina and would have liked to checked your trailer out when you were passin through. Anyway "Happy Trails To You"! :beer: :beer:


I could have had those snap up stabilizers installed when I ordered the trailer. I've been using these sometimes. One is a stabilizer that goes under the step. It does an amazing job of stabilizing one side of the camper so I usually use it. The other is one that actually does a great job but I usually don't bother to set it up. The camper will rock a little when you move in it but it won't tip backwards or forwards and I find that the slight movement isn't really that much of a problem. Often I don't use anything. These picts are from Amazon, not my trailer.

BTW, stop by if you're traveling through. No problem.

51l59iZip3L._SL1256_.jpg
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Re: New Proline conversion coming...

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:49 pm
by m.colley
Deceiver,
after re-reading your post this morning I realized you wanted an answer and I didn't give you a good explanation as to why your unit isn't working correctly.
I'll try to explain it with out getting to technical. I will tell you you've answered some of your own questions.

deceiver wrote:When I tried the AC before installation I turned the AC unit on and no matter how hot the air was the output was cold air. I thought that I could keep it simple buy not recirculating. The hose and ac are dry right now..

Recirculating the interior air is how it cools and satisfies the thermostat. The AC pulls interior air in across the evaporator coil, it removes the heat (or most of it) and then returns it (the cold/cooler air) to the room via the blower. The interior air temp eventually cools down as the unit runs so the AC unit satisfies its thermostat setting and shuts off. (some fans don't cycle off but the compressor does) By not recirculating air from your CTC your defeating even having a return grille (the lower portion of the grille on the front of your AC ) on your AC. By using 100% outside air as your return air source, your AC will very seldom if ever satisfy (it might once the sun goes down and OD temps drop) and will run constantly. It will also suffer from being able to overcome the the ambient temp difference so instead of having COLD air coming out of your hose you have cool air instead . Most AC units will only lower the temp in the neighborhood of 18-25 degrees. This is under ideal conditions. Its just the way AC's were designed.
Yes your system as it is now is dehumidifying but its dehumidifying outside air. If you had a second hose installed (recirculating hose) then you'd be removing humidity from the interior of your CTC and lowering the temperature inside your trailer as well.

deceiver wrote:. The AC is a 5000 btu bedroom one. I'm doutful that the unit itself could push air out more than the 3" hose can keep up with. The max fan in the cieling actually isn't to vent the air from the trailer. The trailer is sealed enough that it acts as a booster fan. When I turn it on I can tell the difference right away in the volume of air that is sucked in. When I open the door I can feel the rush of air as it's cracked open.


The 5000 btu unit your using can move approximately 190- 200cfm worth of air. According to the average air ductulator your 3" hose under normal circumstances will move 40-60 cfm's worth of air at best. To give you an example most bathroom vent fans are rated for 50cfm's and are vented using 3" duct. The high power bath vent fans are rated for 75-100 cfm's and use 4-5" duct. If you feel the air rush in when you open your door then your in what we in the AC business call a negative air pressure situation. To move 200cfm's of air the duct sizing guide says you'll need (1) 8" ducts or (2) 6" ducts. You might get away with (2) 5" ducts, it'll just be noisier. Several members are using 4" duct with some type of booster fan on the return (recirculating) line and some use fans on both the supply and return duct with success.
deceiver wrote:Are you sure? Being outside means the heat from the exchanger stays outside. This morning the temperature outside the camper was 81, inside it was 84 degrees. I put the unit on and turned on the fan to draw the air in through the ac hose. An hour later this is the temperature on the indoor/outdoor thermometer. And I can feel the cold air being pushed by the AC and pulled by the ceiling fan. The air is cold from the hose. The air outside is hot. If this is impossible to make work then I guess I'll take it. But, I know I don't know everything. I'd like to know why it doesn't work.


There are technically two heat exchangers on a AC. The evaporator coil and the condenser coil are both heat exchangers. One absorbs heat (evap) and one disperses heat (condenser) They work just like the AC in your car. The only real difference is your cars compressor is belt driven. Oh and it removes the heat from the condenser faster when your driving then if your sitting at a red light. The extra air movement dissipates the heat quicker.

Your system can work BUT, its gonna take at the very least a return/recirculating hose in a size capable of carry the CFM's your AC is rated to produce.You'll also need to replace the 3" hose with a larger hose. I would suggest sizing both the same size (return/supply).

AC/refrigeration work isn't rocket science but physics are involved. I seriously hope this helps you understand whats going on and whats causing your problems.


Martin

Re: New Proline conversion coming...

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:48 pm
by deceiver
m.colley wrote:Deceiver,
after re-reading your post this morning I realized you wanted an answer and I didn't give you a good explanation as to why your unit isn't working correctly.
I'll try to explain it with out getting to technical. I will tell you you've answered some of your own questions.

Martin


Martin, thank you. I do understand your concepts here, they make sense. Also, my thermostat inside the trailer that controls heat and the AC should shut off when I get the temp down to the set amount. The thermostat outside on the AC is set to maximum and should keep running as long as it's hot out till the inside thermostat turns it off. When I turn the max fan on on the ceiling and crack the door I get a rush of air inside. When I close the door the rush of air comes in through the AC hose. So the ceiling fan, on high, which is quite powerful is really pulling the air in. The business about the heat exchangers as you explained might be another issue that will cause trouble.

I've been working in the trailer doing some cleaning and maintenance and The trailer is so cool inside that when I open the door the rush of hot air is like a wall. I'm heading out to Colorado next week. Some of it should be plenty hot. I'll try it this way on that trip for two reasons, one is that I don't have any more time to tweak this setup right now, and two, I don't drive into hot climates much, so if it works at least okay, I will leave it as it is because it may be a couple of years before I need it again.

Take care and thanks for getting back to me.

Been awhile... anyway added wireless hotspot

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:25 pm
by deceiver
It's been awhile since I've posted to this conversion page. Since the last time we've put about another 15,000 miles on the camper.

But, why I'm here. I've added a wireless hotspot to the camper. When we're at campgrounds they either don't have wireless or it's at the entrance and we're about a thousand feet from it. A lot of people go through their cell phones now but even though I worked IT before retiring I made the decision not to be 'one of those people'. You know, married to their phone. We do have a trakfone which sits in the truck, costs almost nothing, and does what we need it to when traveling.

So, to solve my wireless connection issue with the computer and ipad without breaking the bank, I purchased an ALFA system. For those who don't know there's an antenna mounted outside the trailer with electronics in it that detects signals then it sends it inside to a wireless router that out devices can connect to. The Antenna is about 15db gain. Testing it in the driveway I can see my sister's in house wireless router at about a half mile. Using your computer you pick an unlocked, or locked one if you have the password, and connect to it. The signal is as close as the router inside the camper after that.

Interestingly, we could never get a signal inside the camper as it's all aluminum. It acts like a Faraday cage. Now, we can't read out new router when outside the camper as it's inside of it.... But it works and works well

With the antenna up. I coated it in that dipping stuff to waterproof it.
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The antenna folds down for traveling
DSC01206.jpg
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The wireless router (hotspot) mounted inside the upper cabinet.
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Re: Been awhile... anyway added wireless hotspot

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:23 am
by working on it
deceiver wrote:... we could never get a signal inside the camper as it's all aluminum. It acts like a Faraday cage. Now, we can't read out new router when outside the camper as it's inside of it.... But it works and works well....
  • I never thought of using an external antenna to help my wifi reception in my trailer (not my camping TTT, but my wife's former business trailer). I've been fighting the Faraday cage effect for over two months now, living in her 20 ft travel trailer, in our rear driveway, while our old house was demolished and a new house installed in its' place on our lot.http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69239. Though my wife has already moved into the new house a couple of weeks back, I remain in the trailer with our five remaining dogs, until we have the house interior arranged to be dog-proof, and I've re-constructed our fences around the rear of the lot. Right now, the temporary compound I constructed serves well, for controlling the dogs, but I've been fighting the bad wifi problem for too long, and I'm ready to get into the house and have good connectivity again.
  • At first, when we emptied the old house, we moved the wireless router into my 3-bay steel garage, just behind the trailer. Anytime we needed to use wifi on our phones (and later on our laptops, after we retrieved them from a storage pod), we had to open the garage door to improve our connection. That wasn't good, as we had furniture packed in the garage, that would get wet if it was raining, and we also needed to keep it closed when the dogs were loose in the compound (hazardous chemicals in the garage).
  • Once we had electricity hooked up in the new house, I had AT&T move the router back inside, into my new corner office/dayroom, and out of the metal "Faraday cage" garage. Immediately, my laptop in the trailer had a much better connection, and my new Samsung S7 too, though it still loses connections periodically. When using my devices, I sit at the trailer's dinette, where the streetside wall, refrigerator, and water heater block direct wireless contact with the router (which I can see thru the house window if I peer out the trailer window over the sink, a mere 65 ft. away). So, I just bought a wifi range extender (TP-Link AC1200) from Amazon, and I'll pair it up with the router, then put it in the trailer on the nightstand, where it will have a clear line-of-sight with the router in the house. It should help, if only for a short while, until I get the fence up (by this time next week), and get into the house and out of this metal box.
  • My interim solution may or may not work, I don't know yet, but your ALFA set-up may be worthwhile for me to use while actually camping. I find myself getting ever more dependent on my wifi, on my phone, even though I get nearly unlimited mobile data...I still remember the days where I had to pay thru the nose for overages..., so I would like to be able to use wifi even when at a park. How much did your system cost? what range? and what parts did you use?

Re: Been awhile... anyway added wireless hotspot

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:22 am
by deceiver
working on it wrote:
deceiver wrote:... How much did your system cost? what range? and what parts did you use?[/list]


I used this kit, available online. Mine was from Amazon.

Alfa WiFi Camp Pro long range WiFi repeater kit R36/Tube-(U)N/AOA-2409-TF-Antenna

https://www.amazon.com/WiFi-Camp-Pro-re ... nna+camper

and the fold down antenna mount.

https://www.amazon.com/Shakespeare-4186 ... enna+mount

Total cost around $150+. I understand there are better units available but the cost really rises with most of the others. This one works just fine for us.

After 4 years, a tour of the camper

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:22 pm
by deceiver
I'm sitting here at Locust Lake state park campground on my way to ride the roller coasters at Busch Gardens in Williamsburg VA. Looking for something to do so I got the camera out, shot some video, then spliced it together in iMovie. So, here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-HhUutMogA

Re: New Proline conversion

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:36 pm
by hankaye
Howdy All;

WiFi, ... ahhh, we all crave it but always end up frustrated no matter which
antennas, routers and other widgets we hobble together to make a connection.
Here's a link that can add tech. stuff to what I'm fixin' to say;
https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-maximum ... be-reached

As a full timer in a RV, getting a signal has always been a problem. Most campgrounds
rely on a regular ol' Modem/Router like what your Internet provider puts in your system
at home. Now, depending on where you are (boondocks or inna city), the speed that
the provider is sending to your campground (home), will vary and that is a BIGGIE for
the folks that are trying to sniff out the signal. What you are purchasing is a system to
suck a signal outta the air that is also being sought by several other prospective users.
Heaven help ya if the owner's kid likes to stream movies or play games your receivers
nose will go outta joint before you get a signal.
Best I found was to use your phone as a hot-spot and connect to infernal net from it or
get one of those USB/Dongle thingies that work with the phone companies depends on
your plan.

Since I have set a root down here I went ahead and had a local IP set me up with a line
yet as we are Rural instead of the 20 Mb/s or so max. we get 3Mb/s . Better then none.
One of the folks that I bought a system from is;
https://www.jefatech.com/
Mine worked fine until Management bought a cheap Modem/Router (ie. low powered), I
was less then 100 yds. from the Modem/Router and got nuttin after the "New" M/R was installed.
IT just didn't eat enough Wheaties each day to push a signal out past the porch 20' away.

hank

Re: New Proline conversion

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:23 am
by deceiver
hankaye wrote:Howdy All;

WiFi, ... ahhh, we all crave it but always end up frustrated no matter which
antennas, routers and other widgets we hobble together to make a connection.
Here's a link that can add tech. stuff to what I'm fixin' to say;
https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-maximum ... be-reached

As a full timer in a RV, getting a signal has always been a problem. Most campgrounds
rely on a regular ol' Modem/Router like what your Internet provider puts in your system
at home. Now, depending on where you are (boondocks or inna city), the speed that
the provider is sending to your campground (home), will vary and that is a BIGGIE for
the folks that are trying to sniff out the signal. What you are purchasing is a system to
suck a signal outta the air that is also being sought by several other prospective users.
Heaven help ya if the owner's kid likes to stream movies or play games your receivers
nose will go outta joint before you get a signal.
Best I found was to use your phone as a hot-spot and connect to infernal net from it or
get one of those USB/Dongle thingies that work with the phone companies depends on
your plan.

Since I have set a root down here I went ahead and had a local IP set me up with a line
yet as we are Rural instead of the 20 Mb/s or so max. we get 3Mb/s . Better then none.
One of the folks that I bought a system from is;
https://www.jefatech.com/
Mine worked fine until Management bought a cheap Modem/Router (ie. low powered), I
was less then 100 yds. from the Modem/Router and got nuttin after the "New" M/R was installed.
IT just didn't eat enough Wheaties each day to push a signal out past the porch 20' away.

hank


Ya, it's hit or miss. As far as the cell phone goes. I have a degree in computer science in education and was and IT educator. When I retired, the first thing I did was leave social media sites and downgraded my cell phone for a tracfone at about $8/month. The phone acts as a traveling contact for family and to find out if there is vacancy at campgrounds up the road. And we are free of being controlled by wireless addiction. So, my phone, which is actually a great way to do a wireless connection is not an option. We don't need the connection for entertainment. I bring all of that with me. it's just email and web browsing. If we can't get a signal, there's always a Macdonalds about every twenty miles.