Tongue weight

[defjr333]

While trying to decide on final layout, I realized each design has major differences as to where i could place certain items. IE: water tanks, battery bank, etc. These are some significant weights. What are your tongue weights vs trailer weights? Where did you guys decide to place your heaviest items?

[tony.latham]

Good question. Our 5-wide weighs 1350 pounds dry. We load the back with 55 pounds of water, a cooler that must weigh 30 pounds, and when we're hauling our bikes, that's another 100 pounds off the tail.



We've got a group 27 battery that I think weighs 60 pounds in the tongue box and a bunch of other junk in there too. The tongue is heavy. I have never weighed it and it's nothing I want to try to pick up.

The bottom line: Even with a full cooler, seven gallons of water and two bikes strung on the rack, it is a sweet tow––no bobbing and weaving.

I doubt that helps!

Tony

[McDave]

Well, you are shooting for10-15% of trailer weight. I would guess that means loaded OR not. I weighed mine at tongue before starting build and found it to be just about right. My guess is that determined the placement of the axle. So trailer weighed 1300lbs empty, and 150lbs at tongue when level in flight. GVWR is 2990 and I knew I'd be close to that with a 900lb Harley and the rest, so I was shooting for 400-450lb at tongue. I knew I wanted to put the genny on the tongue, so I put the fresh tank behind the axle for counter balance and tried to keep the rest neutral, for example the Harley straddles the axle, and the AC is directly above the axle. The battery is forward, and my tool box is aft etc. It's not easy to weigh the tongue when she's loaded but I came up with about 400lbs. so I'm in the ballpark. You can tell the difference when towing, and I can add or dump ballast via fresh water tank as needed. That's the best I could come up with.

McDave

[m.colley]

Well, you are shooting for10-15% of trailer weight. I would guess that means loaded OR not. I weighed mine at tongue before starting build and found it to be just about right. My guess is that determined the placement of the axle. So trailer weighed 1300lbs empty, and 150lbs at tongue when level in flight. McDave

Dave,
You are correct, loaded or not tongue weight should be in the 10-15% range. And your correct about the axle placement. Most builders usually use a 60/40 rule when placing axles, 60% to the front which gives you a little tongue weight to help offset sway.

My CTC has a GVWR of 7000lbs and a pre-build weight of right at 2300# giving me a payload of right at 4700#. I haven't weighed it since the build but I kept it on the light side and might have added 1500#. I still load carefully and try to balance everything as much as possible. I'll be loading the Harley soon and that'll change everything but it'll go over the axles just as the 4wheeler does. The battery(ies) are in the Vnose as is the 21 gallon fresh water tank. I usually don't fill the FWT until I have to. The rest of the gear is balanced as much as possible from front to rear and side to side.
I'll weigh it empty at the local scale as it sits now before I load the harley, then I'll know what I need to do.

Martin

[Redneck Packrat]

Easiest way to get a pretty accurate loaded tongue weight is, if you have a scale you can spend a few minutes at, pull across the scale and stop with only trailer axles on scale and hitch ball right on the edge of the scale. Note that weight. Now crank down the jack until the ball goes slack. The weight with jack down is trailer gross and the difference in the two weights is your tongue load.

[swoody126]

defjr333, the above suggestions/information are GOOD

one thing you haven't shared is WHAT WILL YOUR TOW VEHICLE BE

the answer to that point may refine your OP better

if you are planning a single axle CTC and you intend to tow it w/ a passenger vehicle the specifics will differ from specifics related to a tandem axle CTC unit being towed by a 1-ton pick-up or van

IMHO, with lighter tow vehicles a 50#-75# tongue weight usually works well

w/ the F-350 several hundred pounds of tongue weight is needed to produce a level package(truck & trailer) w/o using a load distribution/leveling hitch

MORE INFORMATION PLEASE(tow vehicle, intended trailer size and undercarriage configuration, side or rear door or both, all pavement/some back roading/extensive backroading...)

sw

[Redneck Packrat]

Good morning swoody,

If you're like me, and might be pulling it with a wide variety of things, build and design for the lightest-rated. Yeah, that's obvious, I know....but it's much easier and safer to pull something with a 10% tongue load that is "too light" for a 1-ton. Weight proportions on the trailer are for stability of the trailer....absolute tongue load is mainly gonna affect the comfort of the ride.

I'll be pulling mine with either an '04 F150 light duty (6800# door label that seems over-rated) or a '94 F250 heavy (8800# door label that seems under-rated) Design for the lighter capacity. Put another way, the trailer doesn't care what is pulling it, as far as tracking and trailing, it only knows how much weight's on its feet and nose. When I build mine, I want it to squat the F150 just enough to make me comfortable that it's gonna hang onto that hitch ball. Maybe it's "a little rough" with Brownie (the big gal) but then, if ya think about it, not as rough as without the "light" tongue load!

The rule drilled into me by my dad when he was sending me into town with loaded cotton wagons back in the 70's is: Expect EVERYTHING in your field of vision to jump in front of you, from the kid kicking the ball to the little old lady looking through the steering wheel to the tree planted next to the road. And have a plan to avoid each of them that does not involve the brake pedal. I get a lot of "California howdies" (if you've seen the Beverly Hillbillies remake, you know what I'm talking about) but so far, I've never been pushed by a trailer or passed by my own!

The biggest safety feature a truck/trailer rig has is the nut that holds the steering wheel!

[swoody126]

hey Bill



sw

[flboy]

I probably got lucky with my build as I really had no idea what everything would weigh and what the precise distribution would be, but I did a few things purposely with the floor plan I had in mind that, in retrospect, were a good idea. I knew the kitchen and etc.. would be up front and fix a decent amount of weight there. Paneling, flooring and insulation is distributed evenly so no change in overall ratios. I knew I wanted to carry a lot of fresh water which is ~8lbs * 60 gal so I placed the tanks over the axles, again to help be neutral as much as possible. The remainder of the interior items like bathroom and electrical closets are only slightly forward of the axles and offset by the rear bed weight and payload which is mostly rear of the axles.

If I were to guess, I am the probably nose heavy unloaded, but with intended payload, it all seems to work well with a very stable tow with both the truck and the trailer level for flight (back sags maybe an inch or so, but I like that better... makes it more comfortable). Just to help out and really offset for any of my potentially poor choices, I added a weight distributing hitch and anti-sway bars that help me compensate some depending on how I am loaded (recommended anyhow for heavier hitch weights). I have pulled with freshwater tanks full and a Vulcan cruiser in the back and all seemed well at highway speeds (~6,000lb trailer weight based on F150 (full fuel tank) and trailer weight combined being 12,400 lbs on a truck scale) . I guess at the end of the day, assuming GVWR is not exceeded, it is all about how it tows/handles with the target tow vehicle class/size, which in my case is a 1/2 ton pickup with V8 (F-150). The trailer GVWR is 7,000 lbs with the two axles and has its own brakes... so it stops really well. That is huge for me... Just about anything will get it rolling.... but not everything will stop it quickly enough for those times when the unanticipated happens.

[working on it]

part 1 of an old trailer balance worksheet

BALANCE 1.PNG (105.23 KiB) Viewed 3095 times

part 2

BALANCE 2.PNG (79.77 KiB) Viewed 3095 times

I used a trailer balance worksheet, that was on this forum's design pages. I altered the format for more detailed item-by-item installation, accounting for small changes in position and/or weight. Since I started my TTT build with the heaviest items all behind the axle, I always relied on the worksheet to help me keep the rearward weight bias under control, until I could get everything I needed to put the trailer in balance, which I eventually did. I originally started camping with the nose too light (about 7-10% tongue weight), before I modified to bring it around to conventional norms (10-15% tongue weight). I'm still adding more to the front, since I have a heavy-duty truck to tow with, and a weight-distributing hitch (I always tow everything using one) for stability. My 4x8 TTT has crept over 2000 lbs now, with a tongue weight over 220 lbs, but it's been a long struggle to get there, and the worksheet kept me apprised of where I stood in that process.

[McDave]

Oooooh, I'm liking that spreadsheet. God, I love data. "Just the facts, ma'am".

McDave

[defjr333]

WOW. U guys never stop amazing me with the technical and real life data. Thank you all. To answer what will be used as tow vehicle, it will be a Ram 1500 with the hemi and tow pkg, or a Suburban suv. The trailer will be a tandem axel 7x16 with 6'6" Height. Trying to plan for water tanks, battery bank, apliances, and furniture all the while keeping an even weight distribution is pretty nerve wracking. Did u guys REALLY plan this well, or was there a LITTLE fly by seat of pants that just happen to work?
Lol. But again, thank u all for the input. It will be very helpfull

[Redneck Packrat]

defjr, to answer your question personally: Yes, I have planned stuff. Those plans rarely survive contact with reality. Dad used to say for every jug of paste, there's a pair of scissors....and more paste

The only thing *I* stress on is doing something irreversible to something on the outer layer that can't be covered with trim. "Trim'll cover it" (one of my father in law's favorite expressions) only works on the edges!

It's all a pretty inexact science so long as you don't put all the batteries and water tanks behind the axle or make the tongue out of luan. Lots of people tend to over-think it all, and are paralyzed by not being able to achieve absolute precision. Think about it: Jack Spratt and his wife riding somewhere together, there's a heck of an imbalance side-to-side....but in the real world, cars don't flip over with a hippo and a string bean riding together. For that matter, flying solo (no passengers) has the weight shifted 200# to the left Front-to-back, an empty pickup and one loaded "safely" to its limit have WAY different handling, but neither is demonstrably worse than the other. The hard-stops for me are overloading a spindle/hub or a tire. That is the weakest link, and it's also damn near impossible to do without it being glaringly obvious.

Point I'm making is, there is an ideal distribution that we all strive for, but it's such a wide window for "acceptable" that just being conscious of what "ideal" is, will get you to where you can be happy with your outcome!

[flboy]

No doubt, some of the work was flying by the seat of my pants, but with a good working understanding of the need for load balance and distribution.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[McDave]

Yep, "mindful" of the issues like tongue weight is really the best you can do. You need to know the limits and strive for the best case but perfection is a unrealistic goal. It is a lot easier than it seems, you are getting a lot of info all at once. Just soak it in and when you need it, it will be there for you.
This is however one of the more important issues for safety and comfort. Tongue weight has a very real and critical role to play in towing operations. In theory, this won't be a one time event. You want to use you trailer again and again so it pays to get it as right as possible. Any type of travel at any speed at all is a dangerous business, that we all take for granted everyday, but... a lot of things have to go right. Small things can turn disastrous very quickly, so anything you can do to put the odds more in your favour is a wise investment. You wouldn't dream of taking off in a half assed airplane, but the reality is highway travel is much more dangerous than flying.
Just my .02

McDave