charging Batts from my pikup

Converting Cargo Trailers into TTTs

Re: charging Batts from my pikup

Postby featherliteCT1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:49 am

McDave wrote:Hey featherlite,
Thanks for posting that Ctek PDF. Very interesting. It's not inexpensive, but the ability control solar via mppt, and control TV to CTC charging, and I believe solar to TV and CTC make it a viable option to full blown solar system. MPPT's alone are not cheap.

McDave


You are welcome.

The link I posted to https://www.etrailer.com/Battery-Charge ... 56676.html shows two units: (i) one unit shown is the Ctek 250 Dual unit itself, that I bought for $238, which puts out up to 20 amps, and (i) the other unit shown is the Smart Pass which is an add on to put out an additional 20 amps. So both units together are listed at $418.

My alternator cannot safely output more than 20 additional amps so I only have the basic unit. Again, it works great.
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Re: charging Batts from my pikup

Postby flboy » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:46 pm

McDave wrote:Hey featherlite,
Thanks for posting that Ctek PDF. Very interesting. It's not inexpensive, but the ability control solar via mppt, and control TV to CTC charging, and I believe solar to TV and CTC make it a viable option to full blown solar system. MPPT's alone are not cheap.

McDave
McDave, that is a real interesting device since it allows multiple charge inputs. I like it. Just make sure when they claim MPPT that it is real MPPT. That function requires a DC to DC conversion which means, DC to AC to DC across some decent transformers to be the real deal. That package doesn't look big enough in the pics to house the hardware and heatsink.. but maybe with only 20A? My 40A MPPT solar controller is rather large. The orginal controller/charger I had was not the real deal and about a third the size, but claimed to be MPPT.. but it was from China, and they often "exaggerate ". I kept it for a backup as it still is decent, but just not as efficient in low light conditions.

Even if not true MPPT, I'd get it for the TV and Solar input capability with one device. Just make sure you are okay with 20A capacity. That will limit you to roughly 200w of solar panels and not to exceed 240w. I also did not read enough to know how it handles both if running down the road on a sunny day? It must float the solar cells or the TV input? It would be nice to know if the circuit prefers the solar in that case..

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Re: charging Batts from my pikup

Postby dancam » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:26 pm

You can charge one battery off the existing wire in the 7pin connector if you use an isolator and if you never use a load or draw the batteries way down while the truck is on. 1 battery will only pull 10amps or so to charge itself which that wire can handle. However if you add a load and it tries to bring that load through that wire it will either blow the fuse or melt the wire.
No need to upgrade the alternator for those 10 amps max that would be going through it.

However, you want 4 batteries. I dont believe thats a good idea to charge off the oem wire as they will likely draw 40amps if depleted, but even 20 continuous would be bad.
However, your solar system will put out 30amps in full sun, i wouldnt be too terribly worried about charging off the alternator with that ammount of power.

What will your draws be? When in use?

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Re: charging Batts from my pikup

Postby McDave » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:51 pm

@ flboy,
I Still really don't know enough about solar to make an informed decision if it means a substantial investment. I would consider that Ctek unit a less than substantial investment. However, you still need panels and I would want additional battery storage capacity.
'Maybe you can point me in the right direction here Don. I need a fundamental education in solar and systems. Now, I lived in Alb. N.M. and had connections to Sandia Nat.Labs and Los Alamos N.L. as well as my DOD & DOE experience, and watched as this stuff was developed, but that was 2 lifetimes ago and now that it is at consumer level it's a completely different animal. I doubt if they even use Flux Capacitors anymore, so I'm pretty far out of the game. What I need is a trusted source of basic info so I can put pure, clean data in there to start with. Once I have the basics I can do the research and homework needed to make a good decision, in theory. So, any ideas? Please don't say "Solar for Dummies". My wife always says that. Funny every time...
Thanks in advance,

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Re: charging Batts from my pikup

Postby featherliteCT1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:08 pm

McDave,

I spent a long time researching how batteries charge and how to charge them, including with solar panels. I learned a LOT from “Handy Bob” at https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the ... -puzzle-2/

I highly recommend this resource ... especially while sipping Jameson ... but not too much!.
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Re: charging Batts from my pikup

Postby flboy » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:28 pm

McDave wrote:@ flboy,
I Still really don't know enough about solar to make an informed decision if it means a substantial investment. I would consider that Ctek unit a less than substantial investment. However, you still need panels and I would want additional battery storage capacity.
'Maybe you can point me in the right direction here Don. I need a fundamental education in solar and systems. Now, I lived in Alb. N.M. and had connections to Sandia Nat.Labs and Los Alamos N.L. as well as my DOD & DOE experience, and watched as this stuff was developed, but that was 2 lifetimes ago and now that it is at consumer level it's a completely different animal. I doubt if they even use Flux Capacitors anymore, so I'm pretty far out of the game. What I need is a trusted source of basic info so I can put pure, clean data in there to start with. Once I have the basics I can do the research and homework needed to make a good decision, in theory. So, any ideas? Please don't say "Solar for Dummies". My wife always says that. Funny every time...
Thanks in advance,

McDave


I think you already know what you need to know. Knowledge of the physics of Photovoltaic Solar Panels is not needed although interesting. Basically all you need is Ohms law, basic DC wiring skills (polarity, wire gage, ampacity), and knowing the storage capacity in Amp hours needed to meet your needs in a day (only 50% of aH is available for repeated use on deep cycle battery). Based on your reefer explanations... you understand how to figure that out.

From there, I use a rule of thumb of 1Watt of panel for each Ah of battery (even though you only use max 50% of available aH) .... that get's you in the ballpark, but average daily sunlight, and many other environmental variables may require tweaks (in my case I am @ ~1.4W to 1aH because camping is usually partial sunlight and I like a quicker charge/capacity to recover from a rapid discharge if I choose to run the AC off the inverter for a few hours).. Just leave room to add another panel if you find the rule of thumb leaves you short of a full replenishment each day during the daylight hours. Not a problem per se if you end up with more panel than battery capacity and usage...usually not the case. On the short end, you can always supplement with the Tow Vehicle or Gen in a pinch if you don't have room or desire for the extra panel. Always good to have a backup source in any case. Solar is not always there for you due to environment and day/night.... a generator is always ready. Bottom line take away... battery capacity is more important than solar capacity and an easy calculation... error on the side of the battery and supplement the solar charge until you can expand the array if it can't keep up with your demand).

Sparing the physics, remember monocrystalline is marginally better (more efficient) than polycrystalline and usually a little more expensive for that reason (more pure silicon).. . The Amorphous (thin film) is still relatively new and a lighter technology which is cheaper to manufacture and can used more on flexible surfaces. It is yet to prove itself in harsh conditions over a long periods of time whereas the other two are proven technology... that being the case, I am not willing to pay for it (even though a little cheaper) nor care to test it (maybe if I ever build a electric powered fixed wing UAV :-) ) . Typically for monocrystalline panels, you should expect to pay somewhere between $1.25 to $1.50 per watt for a panel. Less if you are patient for a good deal.

Sounds like you already know the difference and trade offs with a PWM vs MPPT controller and that's why MPPT controllers cost more. Choose a controller size that gives some margin for expansion room if you decide to get another panel. Determine minimum controller size by solving for amps knowing panel watts and given 12vdc (I = P/E). Example, when I had 4 100W panels , if I had a 30A charger, I'd have needed to replace with the 40A when I added the fifth panel. Also in full sun and efficiency, I'd have been running it very close to it's theoretical limit (not good, but typically would rarely happen for many reasons).

There you go... you got it, but then again, I think you already had it... maybe giving me a test :lol: . :thumbsup:

A free tip for solar dependency... plan most of your heavy power usage for early in the day if possible so you have plenty of daylight to recover the batteries.. Lowest usage should be after dark .
Last edited by flboy on Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: charging Batts from my pikup

Postby featherliteCT1 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:36 am

dancam wrote:You can charge one battery off the existing wire in the 7pin connector if you use an isolator and if you never use a load or draw the batteries way down while the truck is on. 1 battery will only pull 10amps or so to charge itself which that wire can handle. However if you add a load and it tries to bring that load through that wire it will either blow the fuse or melt the wire.
No need to upgrade the alternator for those 10 amps max that would be going through it.

However, you want 4 batteries. I dont believe thats a good idea to charge off the oem wire as they will likely draw 40amps if depleted, but even 20 continuous would be bad.
However, your solar system will put out 30amps in full sun, i wouldnt be too terribly worried about charging off the alternator with that ammount of power.

What will your draws be? When in use?

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It is about 17 feet, as the crow flies, from the front of my truck where the fuse box is located to the end of the 7 pin connector on my truck. The wire appears to be 14awg.

The wire size calculator at http://wiresizecalculator.net/ says that, assuming a 3% voltage drop, 14 awg running 17 feet, one way, should carry no more than 2 amps. The voltage would drop to 11.64 volts.

Is the above a correct analysis? If so, the 7 pin connector is not sufficient for my needs. I need about 70 amps per day.
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Re: charging Batts from my pikup

Postby dancam » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:02 am

featherliteCT1 wrote:
dancam wrote:You can charge one battery off the existing wire in the 7pin connector if you use an isolator and if you never use a load or draw the batteries way down while the truck is on. 1 battery will only pull 10amps or so to charge itself which that wire can handle. However if you add a load and it tries to bring that load through that wire it will either blow the fuse or melt the wire.
No need to upgrade the alternator for those 10 amps max that would be going through it.

However, you want 4 batteries. I dont believe thats a good idea to charge off the oem wire as they will likely draw 40amps if depleted, but even 20 continuous would be bad.
However, your solar system will put out 30amps in full sun, i wouldnt be too terribly worried about charging off the alternator with that ammount of power.

What will your draws be? When in use?

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


It is about 17 feet, as the crow flies, from the front of my truck where the fuse box is located to the end of the 7 pin connector on my truck. The wire appears to be 14awg.

The wire size calculator at http://wiresizecalculator.net/ says that, assuming a 3% voltage drop, 14 awg running 17 feet, one way, should carry no more than 2 amps. The voltage would drop to 11.64 volts.

Is the above a correct analysis? If so, the 7 pin connector is not sufficient for my needs. I need about 70 amps per day.


So say 23 ft in the truck and what, like 6ft on the trailer?
So at 14.4 volts and 10 amps 12awg for 29ft is a 7% drop resulting in 13.4 volts.

With 14awg you have 10% voltage drop resulting in 12.95 volts.

Voltage drop more than 3% is not ideal but doable, however as the battery charges the amperage drops, 10amps is what a fairly heavily discharged battery would take. I am not sure at what point the wire starts getting too hot, but i assume you would have to get the amperage over 15amps.
With this kind of voltage drop the alt would never fully charge the battery, just bulk charge it and the solar would have to top it up.

Do you mean 70 amp hours per day?
And is that need total or in addition to what you get from the solar?

Anyhow, what i did was install an additional heavy duty 6pin connector and ran 4x 12awg wires to it and 1x 10awg ground, 1x 12awg ground for power to my trailer. That was before i found that you gan get 2 pin connectors that handle 4awg i believe which is a better option. I did that because of no solar and i plan to be able to draw off the tv battery from the trailer.


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Re: charging Batts from my pikup

Postby featherliteCT1 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:58 pm

Dancam,
Thanks for the info.
Yes, I need at least 70 amps per day. The stock 7 pin with 14awg wire does not work for my needs. FYI, I ran 2awg wire from the front of my truck back into the trailer in order to minimize voltage drop.
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Re: charging Batts from my pikup

Postby dancam » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:11 pm

featherliteCT1 wrote:Dancam,
Thanks for the info.
Yes, I need at least 70 amps per day. The stock 7 pin with 14awg wire does not work for my needs. FYI, I ran 2awg wire from the front of my truck back into the trailer in order to minimize voltage drop.

Right on, what did you use for a connector at the truck/trailer?

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Re: charging Batts from my pikup

Postby featherliteCT1 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:45 pm

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