Here Goes with My Cargo Trailer Conversion, In this Sub-Foru

[McDave]

Hey Caley Ann,
It is an acceptable practice to terminate the ground wires at the nearest chassis ground to the appliance or light. This could save you some effort/money. Just run the appropriate gauge positive wire from breaker or fuse box to the spot you intend install light etc., then run ground wire from light/appliance to nearest chassis ground, Wall studs, (metal only, of course) frame, roof frame. Not required to run ground wire back to terminal block. In my case I just ran 2 conductor wiring as ground terminal block is located inside the power center. Remember to leave a little slack wire at the fixture to ease installation and for possible future repairs.
Also, it is just fine to continue to use this post as your build journal and ask your questions in any form you choose. You have established followers who know how to get to the latest unread entries, newcomers need to read the full story anyways. I would guess you know more about etiquette than most.

McDave

[CaleyAnn]

This battery thing has gotten too much for me. There is just too much required for putting it inside the trailer, too many holes in the trailer required, so I am going to spend some money for this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LXKHBB2/_e ... P94C&psc=0

It will mount on the tow bar, and bolt to the front of the trailer. I just have to figure out how to make a platform that will give it lateral support. It is narrow enough to fit atop the tow bar Can anyone suggest how to properly mount it so that it is affixed solidly to the trailer body and tow bar.

This way it is already vented to the outside of the trailer, and all I have to do is run wires into the trailer. It also allows me to attach a connector so I can plug in my solar panels. I will keep my Lithium Ion battery inside the trailer if I need backup power. It has receptacles built into it.

The above costs a lot, but it eliminates all the complexity that has been put forward by suggestions.

EDITED: After another few hours of thinking hard on this, I have come to the conclusion that these 6V and 12 V AGM and other similar type batteries are more trouble than they are worth. They require complex setup, are heavy, and when everything is added together to get a system up and running, too expensive. I have decided to do what I originally wanted to do, and that is my solar panel system with the Lithium Ion battery bank, and just about for the same cost. Also, I can use more of the stored power without worrying about damaging the batteries. Lead acid 50%, versus Lithium Ion 80%. And the best thing about them is I can use them for my travels when I take my telescope equipment, and I can use them at home for backup power.

[John61CT]

Your bank of lithium powerpacks will cost at least 8x the price per AH, even accounting for greater usable AH. But if you can afford that, yes much lighter less space.

But maybe not so long-lasting, depends on which "lithium" chemistry used - LFP is best and safest.

Have you made up an energy budget yet?

How many AH per day will you use?


Your bank needs to be at least 30% bigger than that in **12V** AH, or use watt-hours to avoid their deceptive ratings.

Make sure the powerpack can be safely charged directly to the internal batt at .4-.6C so you only need to run the genny 2-3 hours per day.

But then you are responsible for avoiding thermal runaway, again depends on which "lithium" chemistry used - again LFP is safest.

Most require 8-10 hours because they force you to route through overly protective electronics that only allow a tiny charge current.

tl;dr besides crazy expensive to get even 100AH usable capacity, powerpacks add complexity and can be dangerous

_____
bare prismatic LFP cells are much cheaper at $800-1200 per usable 100AH @12V

But require more knowledge to install and use

[John61CT]

An overview "hub" powerpack thread

http://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/sho ... ?tid=23546

Touches on some of those issues, and links to other threads more specific about different products on the market.

[CaleyAnn]

The big problem with the Deep Cycle batteries is that they require a ton more things to make them safe to have inside my trailer. I basically am refusing to put them inside my trailer. If anyone can come up with a way to mount them on the outside of the trailer, I probably will consider them. At most, I just want to drill a hold big enough to run the require wire/cables into the trailer to the ground and fuse blocks.

Yes, I understand these Lithium Ion batteries have a low capacity as compared to the Deep Cycle batteries. My problem is all the stuff I need to put them into an enclosed area. By the time I all everything up, and cut all the holes in the trailer, it isn't worth it. I night even have considered these batteries if I could have had an outer hatch that allowed a roll out tray the batteries sit on. That would have allowed me to seal that section from the rest of the trailer. All this reminds me of the Propane thing you guys told me was not so smart. Both have life threatening characteristics.

So, I definitely need someone to tell me just what I can do to either mount the batteries on the outside of the trailer, or somehow create that roll out tray with exterior hatch. And if you do have some ideas, please link the items needed, as I have not found much that would work, and could not determine if all the parts were compatible.

Thanks so much for all your kind help, and your trying to educate me. I guess I am quirky, and not quite as ready to tear apart something nice (my trailer) to add half a dozen things in the walls.

[featherliteCT1]

Here is how Iconfabul8 mounted his batteries outside behind the fenders of his trailer (scroll down to about the middle of the page):

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=66362&start=165

[7sparky7]

Here is a good link about the comparison of lithium to lead acid batteries. They have a pretty informative little video.
They may be on a sailboat, but the technology comparison remains. I’m going with lithium on my cargo conversion myself. The cost per amp hour maybe higher in the short term, but less in the long term. I like the compactness, less weight, and no hydrogen.
I’ve been living off grid for 10 years with lead acid batteries, and having to equalize the batteries, and make sure they get a full charge regularly will be nice not to have to deal with on the road with a battery systems in my travel trailer.

https://www.gonewiththewynns.com/sailbo ... -batteries

[John61CT]

Most people have no problem with unvented batteries in the living space.

With FLA you may notice a smell when charging, but only some people are actually sensitive.

Actual danger from sparks is only when enclosed and unvented.

Personally a bit of construction and an extra hole or two is just normal buildout, par for the course in getting a rig that meets your needs.

Plus what is stopping from putting batts on the tongue?

But definitely something to be said for starting slow and easy and build incrementally as you go.

My main point above was don't spend a grand on lithium without knowing what you're actually getting, and try to get some rough numbers on what your actual AH per day needs are.

[featherliteCT1]

Here is a good link about the comparison of lithium to lead acid batteries. They have a pretty informative little video.
They may be on a sailboat, but the technology comparison remains. I’m going with lithium on my cargo conversion myself. The cost per amp hour maybe higher in the short term, but less in the long term. I like the compactness, less weight, and no hydrogen.
I’ve been living off grid for 10 years with lead acid batteries, and having to equalize the batteries, and make sure they get a full charge regularly will be nice not to have to deal with on the road with a battery systems in my travel trailer.

https://www.gonewiththewynns.com/sailbo ... -batteries

I just checked out 7sparky7's 6X12 Featherlite Cargo Conversion
Build page. He has a :
... 12 volt 300 amp hour lithium ion battery model RB-300 ... $3200
viewtopic.php?t=69617

good stuff!

[CaleyAnn]

featherlightCT1, Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately for me, my trailer is only 6 feet long, which makes it impossible for a side mount, unless I mount one battery ahead and one behind the wheel well. On top of that problem, it looks like the thread creator knows how to, and owns welding equipment. I don't have the knowledge or the equipment. I live in a tiny house, and no garage for that kind of stuff. Most of my tools reside in my tiny second bedroom.

7sparky7, Just looked at the video, and yes, quite interesting, and eye opener. Yes, lithium battery systems are expensive, but when you consider DD, Life Cycles, and the cost of AGM peripheral equipment, along with what apparently is better electrical system performance that the video authors alluded to, and I agree, based on my own experience, the actual cost is actually less in the long run. Not a lot less, equivalent to about the cost of another AGM battery. Comparison was 1 lithium battery system equaled 5 2/3rd's AGM's, once you factored in DD, life cycles and peripheral equipment cost. All this is based on the same Ah rating.

And as I said before, these lithium battery systems can be not only used with the RV, but also at home, and hobbies that require 12VDC.

That said, John, I appreciate all your interest, and ideas provided, but I think I will stay away from old technology power. I will just have to add to my power system over time, probably less than a year, because, as you say, the initial cost is pretty high.

[hankaye]

CaleyAnn, Howdy;

Well, you gots ta do what ya gots ta do. That said, is there a wielding shop in stumpy town?
Ask around, do some explaining about what your requirements are. Basically, just a tray that
lays across the tongue, has lateral supports for the ends that run under the trailer. Take
your trailer with you that way they will have it to take measurements from show them the box
you want to attach to it. Show them what iconfabu8 did for his.
The world is your oyster, ya just need to figure out how to get the critter out ... look around,
the answers are there.

hank

[CaleyAnn]

Hank, Stumptown is busy lately, with so many visitors to Joshua Tree National Park. The locals have a difficult time just getting to the gate some days, with the long entry lines.

I'm sure I could find a welder, but I made up my pea brain, and decided to go lithium. Much less hassle. I just plug in one unit on solar, while the other powers what I need during the day, though most of the day nothing will be powered except maybe the computer fans to keep air movement inside the trailer. One battery unit should keep me powered for a night.

I also have a Duracell 26Ah Powerpack 600 whick I have for backup also. Between two 33Ah battery generators and the 26Ah Duracell, I will have 65Ah of capacity. With good power management I should be fine. Most of what I am purchasing just sips power. My energy hogs are the TV/DVD at 2.6 amps, heating blanket at 4 amps, and 12 inch fan at 2.6 amps. So my nightly power consumption is going to be less than 7 to 8 amps per hour. My Duracell could almost handle that for one evening. And the 33Ah battery generators definitely can. All of these can recharge on the solar panel system 120 watts, 10 amps in less than a day with good sunlight.

I'm still going to set up the trailer electrical just as if I were going to connect it to AGM batteries. I will add a cigarette socket in the battery compartment so that I can just use a male-to-male cord to plug the battery into the trailer electrical system. I doubt any of the circuit breakers/fuses will ever fail/blow. The system just won't draw enough amperage.

[racerrandy]

Here is a box that would work just as well if not better and save you some money.

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-13-cu-f ... 61602.html


Look for a trailer sales and service place near you and they would probably mount it for you for not too much. I have quite a few tool boxes from HF and they work great.

What I think would be a great idea, is to lengthen the tongue a couple of feet. It would make it easier to pull and back up as well as give you room to add extra storage.



Randy

[racerrandy]

Hank, Stumptown is busy lately, with so many visitors to Joshua Tree National Park. The locals have a difficult time just getting to the gate some days, with the long entry lines.

I'm sure I could find a welder, but I made up my pea brain, and decided to go lithium. Much less hassle. I just plug in one unit on solar, while the other powers what I need during the day, though most of the day nothing will be powered except maybe the computer fans to keep air movement inside the trailer. One battery unit should keep me powered for a night.

I also have a Duracell 26Ah Powerpack 600 whick I have for backup also. Between two 33Ah battery generators and the 26Ah Duracell, I will have 65Ah of capacity. With good power management I should be fine. Most of what I am purchasing just sips power. My energy hogs are the TV/DVD at 2.6 amps, heating blanket at 4 amps, and 12 inch fan at 2.6 amps. So my nightly power consumption is going to be less than 7 to 8 amps per hour. My Duracell could almost handle that for one evening. And the 33Ah battery generators definitely can. All of these can recharge on the solar panel system 120 watts, 10 amps in less than a day with good sunlight.

I'm still going to set up the trailer electrical just as if I were going to connect it to AGM batteries. I will add a cigarette socket in the battery compartment so that I can just use a male-to-male cord to plug the battery into the trailer electrical system. I doubt any of the circuit breakers/fuses will ever fail/blow. The system just won't draw enough amperage.

I have a couple of usb powered fans that really push a decent amount of air and use very little power. I carry one with me when I travel and will run all night on a small power bank.




Randy

[featherliteCT1]

I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but I wonder if one of these dual hitches from Harbor freight would help.

https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogse ... +extension

With a dual hitch, you could put one of these cargo carriers on.

https://www.harborfreight.com/500-lb-ca ... 92655.html

Then you could put the batteries in the cargo carrier.

I wonder if the tongue on your trailer is long enough so the cargo carrier would not hit the trailer, especially in tight turns.