Tiny House vs. RV Why?

[Wimperdink]

Don't get me wrong. I really like the idea of living in a tiny house. I intend to find a smaller house than what I'm in now when the market settles a bit. I need to be able to sell the place I'm in now of course.

The question is really, Why a tiny house on wheels as opposed to an RV? The idea is typically the same. If it needs to be mobile, why not better areodynamics. Rv's are also very well equipped for most any need that you can fit into one of these tiny houses.

I can see myself in a tiny house if I was building it and it was permanent. I'd rather though go purchase a $2000 garden shed and finish the inside out, but if it needs to be on wheels? Is it just the looks?

[mikeschn]

I guess a starting point is to find out why Jay built his Tumbleweed on wheels.

One reason might be zoning regulation. Here houses have to be at least 1500 sq ft. But if you put it on wheels and call it a camper, you can build a "SMALL" house.

You may not worry much about aerodynamics if you only plan on moving it every 10 years or so.

Mike...

[Arne]

I know a fellow who lives near a railroad siding. He bought two rail cars, parked them on the unused siding and converted them to offices. Since they are on wheels, and not 'permanent', he pays no taxes on them. And since they don't go on the road, as a trailer might, he does not have to register them, and also avoids any personal property tax I pay on my teardrop trailer every year (and cars as well).

Same thing in Ireland. We were there recently and there was a coffee shop on little (8") rollers.... once a year they rolled it a couple of feet.. it was not taxed because it was not permanently mounted.

[Wimperdink]

Very good points. Hardly for the average Joe but for those individuals yes.

[jimqpublic]

I have always imagined having a piece of land or two that I could put tiny cabins on. I live in LA though, so the chance of me building something on site is pretty low. I have considered building a cabin here then towing it to a potential rural location. That's one reason to build a trailer. Second is I might want to move it.

I'm a land surveyor and have dealt with a few zoning issues. Of course it varies quite a bit- in some states/counties rural areas basically have no zoning restrictions. Here there are plenty.

San Bernardino County, California is huge- the biggest county in USA. Bigger than 9 states. Lots of mountain and desert. Minimum house size is 700 square feet. You may be able to put a trailer on it but not a small house.

Other places where growth is increasing you may be better building a small house, complete with all permits. That way if the zoning or building restrictions change you're already "Grandfathered" in. It is often much easier to get a permit to add on than to build on a lot with no current habitation. My parents are currently adding 1700 square feet to a 500 square foot house!

With a permanent house you will have to install a complete septic system. Usually this is true even if you plan on a composting toilet and grey water system. With a portable house it would be easier. You will probably have to put in a water system, and depending on the local fire district might need 10,000 gallons of water storage. You might be forced to connect to electric utilities and make road improvements before being issued a permit or occupancy certificate.

Taxes also come into play. Again, here in California- Anything with a license plate is currently taxed at 0.65%, depreciated fairly quickly. A permanent structure is taxed at 1% to 1.25% depending on the county. This tax is based on appraisal at completion of construction. Even if you built it inexpensively using salvaged materials, it may be appraised much higher.

Why a quaint cottage on wheels instead of a beat up old RV? It's up to you. Decent quality vinyl dual pane residential windows are a better value than RV windows. I want a roof with eaves which is rare in RV's. It is a tough question though as perfectly decent 20 year old travel trailers can be had for less than the cost of a custom trailer frame.

[mrgumby]

This made me scratch my head also.
When I saw how the houses were being built, it made a lot more sense to me to begin with an old Uhaul body or a reefer body from a truck.
These are built like tanks and with a little bit of modification, you could make it VERY nice inside and if you got a reefer, you would never have to worry about the thing costing a penny to keep comfy.

Having built some interiors in custom living quarters, I know wood fastened for homes does not react well to being shaken and moved around. Look at how many fittings in older trailers are loose and useless...

[mikeschn]

I can't find the blurb now, but I once read that Jay (of tumbleweedhouses.com) had an RV, and he didn't like the way the windows would form condensation. He also didn't like the flimsy door of the RV, and then before you know it, he didn't like anything about the RV.

So he set out to build a real house, with a real door and real windows. And you know the rest of the story.

Mike...

[bobhenry]

I know wood fastened for homes does not react well to being shaken and moved around. Look at how many fittings in older trailers are loose and useless...

The Conestoga wagon with it's ability to haul up to 8 tons of freight over muddy rutted roads and rock strewn creek beds should have never been possible without an arc welder then......?????.

Wood jointery is a dead art , we now just butt the boards together and slam a couple nails in it and hope it sells before it falls apart or blows down. We no longer have craftsmen just nail pounders !
When is the last time you have seen a home being built with let in wind bracing. Where a 2x4 ( or 1x4) was diagonally cut into the wall studs to provide triangulization to eleminate sway in the length of the wall. This practice died in the 40's thanks to the availability of plywood, but you know what...... its is still a very viable and strong method of combatting wind shear. Scarfed in joints allow little if any movement between wood members but they are time consuming and time is money so slap on some osb or plywood and nail the hell out of it. I love reading construction specs where you are instructed to nail the sheathing to the studs at 2" on center so now you have 40 to 50 little wedges in line driven into a 1 1/2 inch wide wall stud. I do not have an architectural engineering degree but I thing Abe Lincon was able to split trees into rails with fewer wedges than that. With the products and fasteners we have available today ( look thru a simpson hanger catalogue sometime) we should be able to build a modest road worthy tiny house , it just takes a look backwards at what our forefathers did and re-learn the benefits of different wood species and re-learn wood jointery and a large dose of old fashion common sense might just come in handy too.
.

[mikeschn]

Bob,

there just are not many good photos of wind bracing on the web...



It was easier to find a photo of timber framing...



Mike...

[bobhenry]

I went looking for that top picture it is a wonderful example of a building that will resist wracking from most all directions. The rafter run is the only delicate balance in that build. I have added kickers to the gable ends so wind pressure is transfered to the collar ties ( or the bottom truss cords ) from both ends. As the wind pushes on one end of the truss run it becomes pull on the other end and they assist each other to keep the truss or rafter run from folding.

This gambrel barn is all wood construction with a tin roof. It is now 15 years old and in its life has seen 45,000 miles at anywhere from 40 to 80 miles an hour. It is now on a pickup bed trailer in my backyard and may soon become a novelty camper as all it needs is a frame and a 4x8 square box with 4' sides. A 36 hour build.

A moniguer for a name " Barn to be wild " with apologies to the Electric Amish Band

[bobhenry]

I got curious this morning and went to a nice write-up on the Conestoga wagons and found a neat little curiosity.

"I'll be there with bells on"

I found a explaination for this often used quote. It seems it was a common practice to have bells on the tongue of the wagons to help alert anyone of the approaching wagon. In heavy weather and dusk / near dark conditions they would warn other approaching wagons.

It seem that if a hapless wagoneer was unfortunate enough to get stuck or brokedown in such a manner that he would take assistance from others he was expected to surrender his bells to the rescuer.

I'll be there with bells on therefore means you can count on me to get there without a problem.

Maybe if I installed some bells on my tear I could arrive at a gathering without my customary tire problem.



Can you say ply seperation !



How about Damn Bolts !

[jay]

so are we using Simpson connectors, no plywood, or joinery?

[bobhenry]

I would use all three and don't forget the good dose of common sense.

[2bits]

To revive the original question of this thread: RV or Tiny house, I am embarking on this journey myself, buying a small bit of acreage and going to put a nice 5th wheel on it. Not sure how RV instantly translated into "Beat up old RV" but my 5th wheel is going to be top of the line and they can be had used for $15k all day long.

This will work great for me as a single person, but by no means is the permanent solution. The plan is to live in that situation until both the land and Home are paid for, and then build an A Frame house, not exactly a Tiny House, but small, and efficient none the less (We all know the drawbacks of the design). I am going to be building it myself, (except for maybe hanging the first top beam) so I am going for ease of construction, and low cost of construction. So when I am done, I will have a small home, then sell the trailer.

So for me an RV is great but "Personally" it is not a final solution. I think having the "Real" Doors and etc... is a major thing, plus just plain square footage, I just need somewhere to live on the land while I build the house. Some people with a big enough deck are happy forever in an RV, and more power to them because they are living how they want and that's what it's all about!

[Wimperdink]

I have every intention to do the same thing... I will build the shop first though. Something big enough to pull the RV inside with room to spare if need be. I saw the thread you posted with the vet in KY building the a-frame. I went through his entire thread and was impressed. I have some limitations in how small I can go because of the size of my family now. An a-frame of that size or slightly larger should be more than enough. I am the only male in the house so the 3 girls can share a bedroom with ship style bunks built in with storage built in. It should save room not having all the floor space used with traditional furniture. I've even considered just 1 bedroom in the top and wife and I sleep in the livingroom as we do from time to time in our current place. I'm pretty crazy about vintage canned ham trailers and to have one or two setup outside on their own lil camping pads could serve as guest houses if need be and campers when I desire. It will keep them comfortable for a few days stay... not comfortable enough to try to stay with us.