HOUSE IN A HOUSE

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HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby bobhenry » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:23 am

Well I have chosen to document the "tiny house in a building" build as a seperate project.

I have tagged it into the caboose build long enough. This little house appears to be a real need . This effort has taken on a life of it's own, so I am going to treat it as a seperate build project and not as an anex to the caboose.

It started in may when I needed a place for my toys and tools and a destination for my furniture and personal items if my home short sold quickly.

I rented a 50 x 60 pole barn with 14 foot ceilings. It was a steal at $200.00 a month.

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I was offered a one time $100.00 rent reduction if I were to clean out the junk left by the previous renter.

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I chose to keep the junk and recycle it and or utilize these items or clean up and sell what was worth selling.

To date I have sold 3 nice steelcase office chairs at $20.. each and have 17 still to go. My dutch oven training seminar was presented using a nice fold up easel and white board I found in the "trash". Steel shelving that was left abandoned has been reassembled and will be utilized in my shop. Hundreds of ( yes hundreds no exaggeration) furniture casters will be used to make the shop space more universal and stowable when not in use.

I finally have inside storage for my toy trailers as well

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A few of the broken office chairs afforded me a new and unique style of trailer tongue stand

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Chubby is 1850 pounds and rolls effortlessly on this stand.

The house plan ........

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although listed as 20 x 30 you see a 4 x 9 insert between the porta potty "outhouse" my shop workbench will nestle there close to the electricity. Adding the bedroom closet makes the main house with closet 536 sq ft exterior to exterior of walls. Deducting the thickness of the walls you bring the inside square footage to right at 500 sq ft. This plan shows a main door and 2 windows in the front wall. As you enter and look right you see the living room with couch and coffee table. almost straight ahead is a large antique oak desk. As you look left you see a clipped cornered closet this will be the pantry or possibly later a gravity feed shower room. The stove freezer and fridge as well as counter space is on the left wall. As you progress around the tee shaped wall it is obviously the sleeping area. Furnished with dresser and mirror, the bed, and a highboy chest. The small closet is accessable by the bedroom area only.

The walls are 8' and framed at 24" o/c since no real roof or snow load will ever be seen by it. It will have a flat roof with some storage utilized up there. It may also see a 55 gallon water tank for the gravity feed water system.

Framing has started... the kitchen wall

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the back wall of the kitchen and sleeping area

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and the right wall......

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This pic is a little goofy as you look at it because there are unplaced walls leaning against the barn camper
you are seeing thru the stud bays.

The center wall has been redesigned to have double walls making a 10 1/4 inch deep neich for shelving. Two bays in the living room will be open for a center located floor to ceiling shelving unit for 46+ wide shelves. A similar bay will be in the bedroom right and left of the bed for storage as well. I figured the 75 cubic feet plus of storage was worth the 7 sq feet of floor it cost. In fact I just might do the same on the short tee wall in the kitchen area above counter height for pantry storage if the clipped wall closet DOES become the shower area.

A beam will continue beyond the longer center wall to the kitchen wall and it will help to carry the ceiling joists allowing them to be 2x6's rather than 2x10's or 2x12's since we are spanning 9'+ rather than 19' 4".

The exterior walls that can be seen in the building will be the T- 111 tongue and groove siding I re-clained from my large mini barn in the yard at the house ( The framing lumber is in the walls too). These "Exterior" walls will be stuffed with 3/4 or 1" blue foam ripped to fit in each stud cavity 3 1/2" deep. The plywood and foam are waste trash from work. ( I love free)

The kitchen wall behind the cabinets will be the osb reclaimed roof decking from my yard barn. This will give a good substructure for hanging the cabinets. Many of the interior walls will be clad using waste 1/2 plywood applied to look like drop siding.
I have 8-10 sheets of 1/2 drywall for other areas such as the closet and potty interior walls and maybe around the neiches making trimming much easier.

I have a beautiful 36" oval glass insulated exterior door I got by stopping and asking for the donation. The homeowner even loaded it for me. It will grace the front with 2 double hung vinyl windows salvaged from the mini barn. The blessing is that I have managed to gather most of the building needs long ago and will make this build extremely cheap.

Even if I am later allowed to live in my tiny house caboose this little building will be valuable storage to keep my better Junque out of the bird droppings that accompany large pole barn storage......

Image


I hope to have some exterior shots of the front with door and windows installed later on this week.
Last edited by bobhenry on Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby eamarquardt » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:30 am

The only things not on casters in my garage are my lathe and my milling machine. Both weigh over a ton. Drill press, grinders, band saws, table saw/planer/router table, storage cabinets, etc. It's easy to move everything, rearrange, and clean. Casters are good.

Cheers,

Gus
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby bobhenry » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:52 am

Well I guess this is a tuesday update of Mondays work.

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The front wall with some of the reclaimed T-111 installed ( window openings are yet to be cut out)

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an interior shot showing the osb wall on the left that will be behind my workbench
outside in the shop. The inside of the T-111 on the front wall (right)
and the plates for the yet to be built double center wall that will house the neich
type recesses for shelving

Image
here is the free door and one of the two reclaimed vinyl windows.
Yep the door needs a little lovin but it will clean up well with a little caulk and paint.
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby S. Heisley » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:48 am

Out of curiosity, Bob, how are you securing your wall frames to the floor? Are you using a nail gun or....?
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby mezmo » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:47 pm

I just have a question on the ceiling-roof for the HIH.
Since you aren't worried about snow loads per se, and
want to use it for some storage I just wanted to mention
to be sure to still build in enough strength in the upper floor/
upper-lower-ceiling [I'm assuming your'e going to leave
the ceiling joists exposed - at least at first.] to carry the live
and dead loads for walking on it and dead-storage.

One way to still do it economically is the new "Advanced
Framing System" techniques. It is supposed to use less lumber
and such. The main emphasis seems to be lining up all the
structural elements so that they bear on each other "directly".

Here are some links:
Advanced/minimal framing:
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/gre ... ed-framing
http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/ ... se-framing
A good PDF on it:
http://www.builditgreen.org/attachments ... raming.pdf

Perhaps you may have some exposure to it through your Shed Building
business ?

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby bobhenry » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:03 am

S. Heisley wrote:Out of curiosity, Bob, how are you securing your wall frames to the floor? Are you using a nail gun or....?


I am not to alter the building in any way so it is simply setting on the concrete floor. I will have sleepers running front wall to back wall and the cavities will be foam filled and then a 3/4 subfloor over all so movement will be limited. Again there will be no wind loads or other factors that would cause movement so it is really unnecessary to anchor the bottom plate. Yes I would have prefered to anchor it with a ramset but I agreed not to alter the building in any way. The right and rear wall are firmly attached to the I-beam framing so it isn't gonna move.
Last edited by bobhenry on Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby bobhenry » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:21 am

mezmo wrote:I just have a question on the ceiling-roof for the HIH.
Since you aren't worried about snow loads per se, and
want to use it for some storage I just wanted to mention
to be sure to still build in enough strength in the upper floor/
upper-lower-ceiling [I'm assuming your'e going to leave
the ceiling joists exposed - at least at first.] to carry the live
and dead loads for walking on it and dead-storage.

One way to still do it economically is the new "Advanced
Framing System" techniques. It is supposed to use less lumber
and such. The main emphasis seems to be lining up all the
structural elements so that they bear on each other "directly".

Here are some links:
Advanced/minimal framing:
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/gre ... ed-framing
http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/ ... se-framing
A good PDF on it:
http://www.builditgreen.org/attachments ... raming.pdf

Perhaps you may have some exposure to it through your Shed Building
business ?

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo



I am spanning 9' 1" with 2x6's 24" on center They will be blocked at 3 foot and 6 foot making each joist telegraph the load to the neighboring joist on each side. The 17" x 8 foot plywood rips will be applied diagonally and as they are only 1/2" ply a second layer will be applied in the opposite angle. I feel it will be strong enough to support anything I am man enough to hoist up there.

And as you mentioned above each joist will set directly on the wall stud below.

Spent 3 hours yesterday measuring looking and chalking out furniture placement to get a better feel of the traffic flow in the house. I found two 22 1/2" window sashes that I think I will frame into the back wall. I will place a light box behind it with a pastural or woodsy scene as a faux window in the sleeping area and in the center of the kitchen back wall. Unearthed in my junk a brand new bifold louvered door for the closet. I had bought it at a yard sale for $5.00 way back when. Somewhere in my album is a picture of some little goofey piece of furniture.

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After measuring everything they will become tiny end tables at either side of the couch. The room is 9 foot the couch is not quite 7 and each little table is 12" wide. Like I planned it :thumbsup:
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby bobhenry » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:10 am

Well I have devoted a couple hours after work Wed. & Thurs. On the framing. The front wall is in and the little clipped corner pantry is framed.I had taken the time to makshift a 4x8 work table in the bedroom area and will stand the internal tee walls this weekend. I will have a crew, Nancy and my "bud" Jimmy will be giving me a hand on Saturday so we should make great strides. The fact that I can't sleep seems to be the biggest problem. I shut my eyes and the designing begins. What changes need to be made , what I need to attack next, what toys and tools I will need that may be at home or on shelves in the caboose, and on and on. I can't get my brain to shut off. I find myself getting up and making written notes. I finally started a journal in a wire bound notebook to keep all the snippets of information as a check off list. No matter how crazy I try and capture the random thoughts and hairbrain design plans. They have lead me to success before. I am just amazed that in such a short time and for so little cash (so far) I may soon have a livable house in a house. To the best of my recollection the first nail was driven on Set. 22nd so in 11 days all the exterior walls are set and some sheathed and a bit of electrical has been ran.

And for those of you that haven't been on my caboose thread I have an ally. The mayor of Frankfort has weighed in on the tiny house "caboose" matter and is showing his support. Hope to meet with him soon.
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby bobhenry » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:53 am

Well here are some pics of the pantry, electrical, insulated kitchen wall that is now wired and hot, My window installed seen from inside and out.

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What you don't see is all of yesterdays work

Some dummy forgot to take more pics. :x

The tee wall that runs from front to back is in and the beam that runs from there to the right side (kitchen) wall is installed. I will be able to start installing the roof joist this evening after work.

Just like Jonny Cash "One piece at a time"
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby bobhenry » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:03 am

This center tee wall is a pain in the butt !

As the walls were free standing, until I got a center box beam and a couple of ceiling/floor joist in, it was tough to get things set plumb, square, and centered. I worked 2 hours yesterday. I installed the in floor box beam. After getting it in I installed a "U" shaped wall lead directly under it to carry the upper floor load as the "roof" will be used for storage. Getting the beam in and centered and the walls under it plumb was a real effort but as you can see its in. I was also able to get 3 of the joist in. I hope to get some plywood down on the floor above before the weekend.

Image

Hey Mezmo : Notice the joists are aligned with the wall studs just like you were talking about. This eliminates the need for a double top plate and telegraphs the load directly down to the concrete slab.
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby pchast » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:24 pm

Bob,

Just a thought...

I think I would want to have the bearing walls sheathed before
adding much weight to the ceiling. It would help support the
load by keeping the studs in line.
:thinking:

Looking good so far. Great progress.
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby bobhenry » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:08 am

If you are concerned about the walls crealing diagionally don't be. They are bolted to the buildings superstructure. This picture shows a lug that was originally welded to the 10" I-beams. They were used to anchor the walls to the floor when the building was completely filled with grain. I built out the nearest stud as needed and bolted thru the stud to the steel lug with a 3/8 bolt. In the rear wall I used beam clamps and drilled and bolted the nearest stud as well.

Image

The open side wall and the front wall are almost completely sheathed with either 7/16 osb or 5/8 t-111.

Image

The interior is left open for now to gain access for the 12 volt DC and 120v AC wiring outlets and switching.

I left work 2 hours early yesterday and have the four tee walls almost complete. I also cut the kitchen ceiling joists and have several more installed. I also installed several of the electrical boxes. Doesn't sound like much and the pictures would be pretty much the same as already posted but I left tired and ready for a cold beer.

The 4 tee walls better explained......

Image

I chose to make a double wall as a storage wall for both of the interior tee walls. They will add strength , storage , and a bit of sound proofing as well. The living room wall is shown ( a bit out of scale) The cavity is 10 1/4 inches deep and is centered on the living room wall and at either side of the bed in the bedroom side. The kitchen wall will have 3 such cavities also.
A shallow pantry a spice cabinet and a hidden neich for show and tell items as decoration behind a let down wall mounted table.
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby pchast » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:50 pm

Bob,

Just what I was thinking. I think you have it covered...
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby mezmo » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:46 pm

Hey Bob,

You're making good progress ! That aligning all the structural pieces is a
bonafide good idea - and material saving, even though I do count myself
a member of the "Redundency Is A Good Thing" club for most things.

I like the "thick wall" idea with alternating open shelving on each side. And
since you haven't mentioned it either way, let me suggest that the areas you
show between the shelves be used as 'shallow' cupboards/cabinets, using
those push catches for knob-less/pull-less doors on them, which would thus
look like wall panelling. The doors could be full wall height or divided on
them, as you like. Why waste that volume between the shelves? I'm just
a big advocate of built-in storage, so I thought I'd throw that idea out there.
It'd be hard to make a better use of the structure and its volume than combining
it with both shelving and 'hidden cupboards'.

And this is much too late to suggest this - but since this thought just occurred to me -
did/have you considered making the HIH structure "disassemble-able" in case you'd need
to move it sometime in the future ? I thought that might be a handy feature, since
it is in a rented space and there's the fact that it's not always possible to foretell
one's future occupancy duration due to matters totally outside one's control. 'Just
thinking that a 'modular or panelized' type of construction might aid in a future need
to move on to another location. Of course, a sawz-all may work in that scenario too,
if the need arises, but just unscrewing or unbolting panels would probably be easier
and less messy overall.

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo
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Re: HOUSE IN A HOUSE

Postby bobhenry » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:40 pm

With a little luck I should have some pics in the morning. I was 4 boards short of finishing the center wall between the bed room and the living room. The wall studs in the rear were laid out left to right and the front wall studs were laid out right to left so I knew the ceiling joist runs would not align. What I didn't know was they only missed aligning by the width of the members. Yep thats right they miss aligning by 1 1/2 inches allowing me to nail each front member to the rear member locking the front and rear wall together. It was just a happy accident :lol: I was able to just let the members run long without cutting each of the ceiling joists. I was able to get five more joist installed last night. I might have a ceiling very soon.
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