Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

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Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby KCStudly » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:41 pm

First a turd, now a vintage 228E.

Found this on my desk this morning. 228E stamped 4-54.
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Came with 4 packs of mantles priced at $0.39 a pair (not sure if these are old or new, but at that price I'm thinking older, rather than new).

My picker buddy Larry picked it up at a yard sale for me over the weekend for $5.

The hat is a bit lighter color green than the font.

The globe is etched "Heat Resistant" and "Made in USA", but for the year I would have thought that it would have had the sunrise Coleman etchings, so I am thinking that it is a replacement (I'm no expert...nearly a total novice).

The fuel cap has a slotted round head screw holding a tapered bung and what looks like a grooved brass ring with no gasket (shown here sitting in the underside of the hat before I wiped most of the soot out).
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I'm wondering if there is supposed to be a gasket or o-ring, or if this is intended to be a "hard seat" seal (i.e. brass cap insert directly on steel font boss). Here's a crappy close-up.
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The fill port on the font has rust inside, a few rust flakes dropped out of the dry tank when I tipped it over (need to do the BB shuuka shuuka thing). Do I need to take the works out before shuuka shuuka, or is it okay to do with it assembled? Crappy pic of rust in fill port.
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The upper portion is a bit crusty, but nothing too bad.
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Here I am using a damp paper towel with a drop of dish soap putting some elbow grease into removing soot from the globe. Pay no attention to the icy cold beverage.
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The saucer looking thing up above my drink is one of those "vintage" fan powered ash tray deals that my wife keeps around as a gag trip down memory lane for when her family visits; several of them smoke.

Here she is just sort of wiped down and cleaned up without any serious disassembly.
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Now here is the rub. Neither the fuel knob or the cleaner rod turn, even with considerable hand force. My next move will be to use a tube fitting wrench and attempt to loosen the packing nuts on these shafts, but I am wondering if there is some other trick that I should use to free these up without damaging them. Maybe a shot of penetrating oil? I'm hopeful that these are all pretty typical conditions that can easily be remedied w/o too much effort or disassembly. I'm a little afraid that I will do more damage than good if I try to take it down to parade rest.

The hat does have some damage, a few chips in the enamel on top, and some flaking and areas of rust in the perforated area, but I assume these are typical for a lantern of this vintage.
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I would like to just get it working reliably and make it a user, so would like to avoid a serious renovation or polishing at this time.

The pump wheezes a bit and doesn't build pressure (although if pumped while closed it has heavy resistance...not sure if that means anything). I tried just dribbling some mineral oil down the pump, but that didn't do it, so I will disassemble, lube and massage the pump cup seal.

I have never taken one of these down past removing the pump for service, and removing the globe and hat to give it a wipe and new mantles. I am mechanically handy, so any advice would be gratefully welcome.

Thanks.
KC
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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby Wolffarmer » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:34 pm

Tear it down all the way to do the BB dance. The strap it to this.

Fount cleaner

The last one I did the BB thing to ended up with a mess of holes. Now it is good only for cutting open to display the workings.

The cap needs a gasket. It is the large one. Can get on flea bay.

Seldom does one need to get parts other than the gasket. Most everything else just needs some cleaning.

Oh congrats on that nice 228E One of the best built. except for how the pump is held in. I like the B and C better for that

Randy
Last edited by Wolffarmer on Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby High Desert » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:44 pm

Very nice KC, a real classic model.

On the valve and tip cleaner, I've had very good luck by loosening the packing nuts a bit and repeatedly dripping some penetrating oil (PB Blaster) into them, then just leave 'em alone for a week or so. If they're still stiff, a little heat around the nut helps too. Kinda like building a trailer on teardrop time, it doesn't have to be finished right now ;) Pull the pump out and oil the leather cup well with Neatsfoot oil, often they will come around and work just fine without replacement.

You'll like that one when it's done.
Shaun

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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby KCStudly » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:54 pm

Well that is one fancy paint shaker you've got there, Randy. I'm guessing that the harvest is all in and you have plenty of "build time" on your hands now(?) :roll: :thinking: :lol:

Any advice for getting the shafts freed up, or will they just come apart after loosening the packing nuts and with some gentle coaxing?

I'll go back and read the reference material often linked to the Coleman collector's site.

Probably later. Need to get building TPCE again.

Any progress on your next TD? Would like to see that come along. :thumbsup:
KC
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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby Wolffarmer » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:07 pm

I am not worried about the harvest any longer. Now I am on the exhaust end of the cow. Driving manure truck. It is kind of a hit and miss work. Work like crazy for a bit then nothing. I haven't gotten started on the new trailer yet. So many other things I should be doing but just can't work up the energy to do anything. ( or money to get someone else to do it ) House needs a new roof and fall storms are not far away.

If the fuel valve is stuck just unscrew the packing nut and screw out the shaft, usually pushes the graphite packing out. Usually no real need to remove the cleaning lever unless you are getting anal and doing a full clean and rebuild. I have had success with applying a tiny bit o heat from the torch. Seldom have to replace the graphite packing but I do like to put a drop of machine oil on the shafts and slide them back and forth. If they leak a bit just tweek the packing nut.

Oh, and if the screw is still tight on that fuel cap you are on your own buddy as to how to get it out. If the gasket is still there you just put it on the fount real tight and loosen the screw. They break loose with a satisfying "pop " will know it when you hear it.

Randy
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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby atahoekid » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:33 pm

Randy, I need a shaking machine like the one you show on you tube. Not sure what I'd do with it and the wife would probably want me to get rid of it right away but I'm sure I'd get attached to it and keep it. :R :shock: :lol: :D 8) 8) 8) :R :R :R
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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby Wolffarmer » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:35 pm

I am taking in discarded paint shakers.

8)

Randy
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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby campmaster-k » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:25 am

If Shakira is in deed a paint shaker then I believe there are only two of us on this forum who have the proper skills and knowledge to accept her . Paul and Me. For you see we a paint dudes - real ones. I always believed that Shakira would come into my life somehow and now Randy you have confirmed it. Thank you.


KC - cool lantern. I would avoid letting the packing out of its sleeve on the fuel control valve if possible. Tough to get back in.
-Kirk

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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby Rock » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:03 pm

I picked up the same one a bit ago only older 1953 I think. Mine has the original green sunrise globe but I paid $20 for mine so don't feel bad. These things are tanks compared to the newer stuff. Literally all I have done is add fuel - the mantles are old like the ones you have and they seem way more durable than the new ones.

This model is great for hanging overhead for use in dining or reading. It's been my outdoor reading lantern all summer until the mosquitoes drove me inside a few weeks ago.

Get her running and enjoy.

Eric
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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby KCStudly » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:41 pm

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I'll get it going sooner or later.

I'm with you, Randy. Just can't seem to get motivated lately. Longer work hours, shorter daylight, and echoes of vacation laziness. Mild SAD, maybe. Started taking Vitamin D3. Will see if that helps any.

Hope those cows find some regularity (!!!! :R :lol: )

So there is supposed to be some sort of soft rubber gasket or o-ring under the cap? My 275 turd has a gasket, IIRC. This one has more of a truncated cone shaped plug and what looks like a semi-circular metal seat around the perimeter up under the cap; copper or brass, maybe. The threaded cap, the umbrella portion if you will, sort of floats on the screw allowing the plug portion to stay stationary to the font while the cap part continues to turn down. It seems to tighten down okay, and if it truly is a hard seat (brass on steel) then once I clean the rust off of the fuel spout on the font it should seal again, no?

I'll have to go dig out a schematic parts break down when I get done with this post and see if I can figure out what is supposed to be there.

Shaun, looks like our posts crossed in mid flight. Thanks for the tips.

Same to you Kirk.

Eric, I was guessing the exact same thing. With the white enamel under the hat it must beam down like the RR X-ing scene in Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind!

Any thoughts on the two different colors? Could that be factory, or just like I suspect, Frankenstein?

Let's see, that's a 413E, a 275 turd and a 228E. Nope, not addicted yet............yet.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby campmaster-k » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:08 pm

Yes you need a rubber gasket.

I too get the SAD. In the winter. I need sun and vit D. Scotch helps too.
-Kirk

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viewtopic.php?t=45307&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=180

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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby Wolffarmer » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:36 pm

campmaster-k wrote:I always believed that Shakira would come into my life somehow and now Randy you have confirmed it. Thank you..


Anytime dude.

KC, the cap from your 275 will work on the 228E. Just look terrible. Use it for testing.

Randy
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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby KCStudly » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:11 pm

I had a look at the 220E/228E exploded parts list (gasket PN 118B1361) and then looked that up on the Old Coleman Parts site.

They show the inner part of the cap next to the gasket, the later appears light brown or tan. I was expecting black, so will take another look at the cap later and see if I was just not seeing things right.

I know it's just a simple gasket, but since it seems to be one of the key service parts, and I 'd rather sit on the couch at the moment, I feel the need to over postulate.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby Wolffarmer » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:42 pm

Thats the gasket. If you like I will mail you one.

Randy
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Re: Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection

Postby KCStudly » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:26 pm

Thanks Randy. That's very friendly. I'll take you up on it; PM sent.

Let me know what I can do for you in return. I know they're not expensive, but your gesture means a lot. :thumbsup:
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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