Planning a new camper

[depatty]

After trying to live with the standup camper I built last year and not liking the weight, way it towed, and needing to replace the skin, I decided to tear it down and start over.
One of the design perimeters is that it tow behind the Ranger pickup without me having to extend the mirrors. I got to looking at the size of the frame (76" wide and 118" long) and if I go to the edges of the sides it will be too wide. Got to looking at the way it was built and to make it narrower will mean rebuilding the entire thing and I don't really want to do that. Between the existing wheel wells (haven't got the floor removed yet) I've got 52" which just happens to be the width of the futon I am planning on using for our bed. So I got to thinking why not use the entire frame but make the camper body 52" inside with a 12" (or slightly less) running board/seating area on each side below the door and add a raised wheel well and behind that to the rear of the frame a storage box on each side. Back of the box will be a good tail light mount.

Am going to try to add pictures below of the plans I have worked out so far. Hope this works...

This first one is a base/floor layout:



And a side view. Other side will be a mirror image of this one. The running boards will be thin plywood or aluminum plate on top of the frame. Still working on how I'm gonna build the floor.



View from the front. Will most likely have a tongue box with spare tire mounted on front wall, just below the point it starts curving.



And last a view from the back showing the lights.



Still got a lot to work out before I start on this but it seems to be fitting together pretty well.

So, what do y'all think? Should I try this or cut the frame and rebuild it to fit the camper width?

[Alan Wood]

After trying to live with the standup camper I built last year and not liking the weight, way it towed, and needing to replace the skin, I decided to tear it down and start over.
One of the design perimeters is that it tow behind the Ranger pickup without me having to extend the mirrors. I got to looking at the size of the frame (76" wide and 118" long) and if I go to the edges of the sides it will be too wide. Got to looking at the way it was built and to make it narrower will mean rebuilding the entire thing and I don't really want to do that. Between the existing wheel wells (haven't got the floor removed yet) I've got 52" which just happens to be the width of the futon I am planning on using for our bed. So I got to thinking why not use the entire frame but make the camper body 52" inside with a 12" (or slightly less) running board/seating area on each side below the door and add a raised wheel well and behind that to the rear of the frame a storage box on each side. Back of the box will be a good tail light mount.

Am going to try to add pictures below of the plans I have worked out so far. Hope this works...

This first one is a base/floor layout:



And a side view. Other side will be a mirror image of this one. The running boards will be thin plywood or aluminum plate on top of the frame. Still working on how I'm gonna build the floor.



View from the front. Will most likely have a tongue box with spare tire mounted on front wall, just below the point it starts curving.



And last a view from the back showing the lights.



Still got a lot to work out before I start on this but it seems to be fitting together pretty well.

So, what do y'all think? Should I try this or cut the frame and rebuild it to fit the camper width?

Looks pretty good to me. I do wonder if the wheels are a bit far forward for this plan. If you put heavy stuff in the rear outside storage area this will be even worse than a traditional teardrop about need the wheels moved back from center.

[depatty]

Looks pretty good to me. I do wonder if the wheels are a bit far forward for this plan. If you put heavy stuff in the rear outside storage area this will be even worse than a traditional teardrop about need the wheels moved back from center.

True. Problem is, if I have to move the axle back it will mean having to rebuild the frame anyway. I have tentatively planned on storing stuff like camp shovel, chairs, and charcoal in the rear boxes. Was planning on putting the battery and charger in the tongue box to help a little with the balance. I can move the shelves for clothing and such that are at the back of the sleeping compartment to the front wall which will move a bit more weight forward. Will run the Trailer Balance Spreadsheet before I go any farther and see what tongue weight looks like.

Thanks for the input!

[Alan Wood]

Looks pretty good to me. I do wonder if the wheels are a bit far forward for this plan. If you put heavy stuff in the rear outside storage area this will be even worse than a traditional teardrop about need the wheels moved back from center.

True. Problem is, if I have to move the axle back it will mean having to rebuild the frame anyway. I have tentatively planned on storing stuff like camp shovel, chairs, and charcoal in the rear boxes. Was planning on putting the battery and charger in the tongue box to help a little with the balance. I can move the shelves for clothing and such that are at the back of the sleeping compartment to the front wall which will move a bit more weight forward. Will run the Trailer Balance Spreadsheet before I go any farther and see what tongue weight looks like.

Thanks for the input!

Your welcome. The battery and charger in the tongue box will surely help. As would moving the sleeping compartment storage forward. If you go this route I think you will have to be carefull to keep the running board storage lite. Hm it occurs to me that making the running boards out of not so light aluminum plate would be a step in the right direction.

[Steve_Cox]

Dave,

You're making me want to tear my new build apart and start over too. (maybe not) Now I'm worrying about how will it tow?, is it too wide?, and all that stuff. Looking forward to see what you do, sure enjoyed the last one.

[depatty]

Dave,

You're making me want to tear my new build apart and start over too. (maybe not) Now I'm worrying about how will it tow?, is it too wide?, and all that stuff. Looking forward to see what you do, sure enjoyed the last one.

Hey Steve,

Thanks! Your new build is looking awesome! You're really moving on with it. Looks to me like the weight is gonna be low enough to be fine. Love the bowed roof! Hope to see it in person sometime.
I think the last one I built was just too much weight, too high up, on too light a frame and axle, as well as we were trying to pull it with too small a truck. But it was one of those things that I learned a lot from. Especially a lot of ways to not build a camper... As it was put together almost entirely with screws and no glue the parts can and will be reused somewhere/sometime.

Alan,

I ran the rough numbers on Trailer Balance Spreadsheet and am coming up with a tongue weight/percentage around 100 to 120 pounds and 9 to 10%. That's with the tongue box with battery and charger and moving the compartment storage to the front. Which may allow me to build a drop floor, add a removable table and use the futon for seating against the galley wall. Which will add more weight in front of the axle and be a good thing other than for the tow vehicle. Gonna have to finish the teardown and make a bunch more measurements to be sure.

Am gonna make sure and keep the outside storage light. May trim the height of the boxes and wheel wells down 2 to 4 inches too, just to reduce the amount of stuff that can be crammed in there.

[Alan Wood]

Alan,

I ran the rough numbers on Trailer Balance Spreadsheet and am coming up with a tongue weight/percentage around 100 to 120 pounds and 9 to 10%. That's with the tongue box with battery and charger and moving the compartment storage to the front. Which may allow me to build a drop floor, add a removable table and use the futon for seating against the galley wall. Which will add more weight in front of the axle and be a good thing other than for the tow vehicle. Gonna have to finish the teardown and make a bunch more measurements to be sure.

Am gonna make sure and keep the outside storage light. May trim the height of the boxes and wheel wells down 2 to 4 inches too, just to reduce the amount of stuff that can be crammed in there.

The numbers sound better than I thought they would. Looks like your plan is coming together

[depatty]

This sketch is a side view of the inside with some rough detail added. Floor box is tentative as I've still got to finish the teardown and get the old floor off and see exactly where the cross support members are located. Maybe by this weekend.



Alan,

I'm doing a lot of guessing in coming up with those numbers and the shape of this critter doesn't exactly match the shape that the calculator was designed for. After I get the rest of the stuff off the frame I'll get the big feed store scales out and see if I can get an actual weight for the frame and axle as well as hitch weight and see what changes need to be made and go from there.

[Alan Wood]

Alan,

I'm doing a lot of guessing in coming up with those numbers and the shape of this critter doesn't exactly match the shape that the calculator was designed for. After I get the rest of the stuff off the frame I'll get the big feed store scales out and see if I can get an actual weight for the frame and axle as well as hitch weight and see what changes need to be made and go from there.

Every good TD starts with a vision. And your vision apears to be coming together nicely.
The hatch being staight looks like a good canidate for strategic light weight construction to me. And it's in the place were that would help the most with your existing trailer.
The tounge box however probably ought to be built like a tank within reason of course.

[Alan Wood]

Hm I was taking another look at it and realized that as drawn the trailer end of the galley hatch is at 5'3" . You may want to extend the hatch forward several inches to get better clearance in the galley. Like has been done in some of the grashopper's.

[coal_burner]

Good balance front to back is important, but to ensure good road manners, having the mass centered near the axle is also important. With large amounts of mass at either end, when the tow vehicle hits a bump in the road,the trailer tongue will begin to oscillate up and down. The rear suspension of large tow vehicles damps this down rather quickly, but a mid sized tow vehicle like yours may get uncomfortable.

I learned this towing about 1000LB of misc junk while helping a friend move. I strapped everything to the front and rear walls of my utility trailer to get an almost perfect 100 lbs of tongue weight. after every bump on the freeway, the nose of my 3000LB tow vehicle would bob up and down for about 30 seconds. I eventually pulled off of the freeway, dragged everything near the center of the trailer and strapped everything down as best i could. Still had 100 LBS tongue weight (a bathroom scale was one of the things in the trailer). It towed beautifully with no bouncing for the rest of the 50 mile trip.

I can't wait to see if this build moves along as quickly as your last one.

[john]

Concerning the drop floor you might want to throw into consideration an uneven road surface. Entering a gas station for example.

The dip for the roadside gutter combined with the hump of the gas station entrance can cut into your clearance.

[John T. Hodgen]

being a southern countryboy with different slant on things, but I think it would be easier to buy a bigger truck and live with what you built and enjoy it til someone with a offer you can't REFUSE buys it. and build a new one and invest the leftover$$$ into a dream!?! I do like your design with outside cargo/bench system, good luck. John T.

[depatty]

Hm I was taking another look at it and realized that as drawn the trailer end of the galley hatch is at 5'3" . You may want to extend the hatch forward several inches to get better clearance in the galley. Like has been done in some of the grashopper's.

I'm over 6 feet tall, so yea, I've given a bit of thought to the head clearance problem and also thought about the flat back wall causing reduced fuel economy too. But, on the other hand, my initial reasoning was that most if not all of the actual cooking will be done outside or on swing out/pull out tables and the galley area will be used mostly for storage. Also the vertical seams will be easier to waterproof/seal and the rear door can be a lot lighter and easier to build. On yet the other hand, I do like the grasshopper design and you do make a good point about the height. I'll take a look at changing the angle on that back wall and see what it looks like with the top moved forward 10 to 12 inches. That would still let me keep the hinge on the (almost) vertical portion of the wall but reduce the knots on the head quite a bit...

Thanks for the input!

[depatty]

Good balance front to back is important, but to ensure good road manners, having the mass centered near the axle is also important. With large amounts of mass at either end, when the tow vehicle hits a bump in the road,the trailer tongue will begin to oscillate up and down. The rear suspension of large tow vehicles damps this down rather quickly, but a mid sized tow vehicle like yours may get uncomfortable.

I learned this towing about 1000LB of misc junk while helping a friend move. I strapped everything to the front and rear walls of my utility trailer to get an almost perfect 100 lbs of tongue weight. after every bump on the freeway, the nose of my 3000LB tow vehicle would bob up and down for about 30 seconds. I eventually pulled off of the freeway, dragged everything near the center of the trailer and strapped everything down as best i could. Still had 100 LBS tongue weight (a bathroom scale was one of the things in the trailer). It towed beautifully with no bouncing for the rest of the 50 mile trip.

I can't wait to see if this build moves along as quickly as your last one.

Good points! I've been in a big boxover truck hauling a 24" trailer that wasn't loaded right and had the oscillation nearly turn the truck over. Don't want to take that trip again...

I'm shooting for under a thousand pounds total in this build and not planning on having much additional weight in the camper while towing. Most of the heavy stuff (6 gallon water jug(s) and loaded cooler) will ride in the back of the truck. About the heaviest single thing in the camper will be the battery in the tongue box. Just gonna have to wait till I get the frame bare and figure it from there. It may be that a complete cut it apart and rebuild from the pile of parts is required and if so I'll move the axle back, pitch this design completely and start from scratch.

I'm hoping that this build goes as fast as the last one too, but as slow as I'm being about getting that one torn apart I ain't sure...