been lurking and got a question

[jnyjetta]

I guess this is the best place to ask.

So I've been reading over all the threads on non-traditional designs and I have a plan in mind but I am looking for anything similar.

I want to convert a rolling car shell, as in a tow-car, into a trailer. I have Google'd my Yahoo off and come up with nothing but van conversions and 1/2 cars. I want to do the whole car. I have the vision in mind for a small mattress sleeper, gutted interior, under-hood storage (no drivetrain, just a rolling shell), and a vast array of storage areas.

Any direction you all could point me in, links, tips, complaints, suggestions that I have myself committed for crazy ideas...whatever; I'm happy to hear them.

Thanks!

[angib]

Three issues with doing this:

1) Weight. Even with the engine and transmission out, it won't be a light trailer, though for sure it will be a small trailer. That's no reason not to do it, as long as you're aware of what you will get.

Your username has jetta in it, so maybe you're thinking of doing this to a Jetta - older models had curb weights of 2800-3000 pounds, so it's likely the trailer will be over 1500 pounds unladen.

2) Balance. This one could be a problem. You want 10-15% of the trailer weight on the hitch for stability. More than that isn't a problem for the trailer, but it may be a problem for the tow vehicle, as you may exceed the hitch weight limit.

A typical car will give you maybe 30-40% hitch weight and if you are thinking of a Jetta, that's 500-700 pounds (laden) hitch weight. No problem for a big truck, but waay too much for another Jetta - which is the cool-looking combination.

3) Strength. To make an A-frame tongue stick out a decent length in front of the car will put a decent bending load on the attachment points on the car, so expect to have to run the tongue structure well under the front of the car.

I would try to use the sloping bulkheads at the front of the driver/passenger footwells as the rear tongue attachment point and the front suspension mounting points as the front tongue attachment point. Connecting to the grille area as well makes sense but I'm not convinced that would be strong enough to take the tongue loads on its own.

Remember that the tongue will stick out the front much further than a towbar sticks out the back, so don't think that you are just adding a towbar to the front.

[jnyjetta]

I thank you for your insightful tips. They are important. I quickly moved off a cut car for the very reasons you pointed and it would get to short to use when chopped to a length for proper tongue weight. I should clarify my intentions though. I want to keep the converted body on all four wheels and tow it as if it were a tow vehicle behind an RV.

Your guess is very good as this is my forth Jetta, but the vehicle I will be towing with is a BMW 540i and it is tow rated up to 3500lbs according to manufacturer specs. The empty Jetta chassis weighs in just shy of 1000lbs so I have a LOT of room to add on.

I know I'll have to deal with my own state's regulations for my idea though I wonder about brake needs, turning radius with the tow bar, then I just want more ideas to follow though on the plan and things to be concerned with.

I have visions of a pullout stove drawer attached to the grille, lots of under-hood storage, hinged fenders with storage, flat sleeping area from mid-trunk to front seat area, drop-floor storage where the gas tank was, spare tire well water bladder, headboard dresser replacing the dash, the list goes on and on.

[PaulC]

All 4 wheels in there original position!!!! How would you turn this thing?
All that weight would necessitate brakes on the "trailer".
My suggestion would be to can the idea and build a TTT or TD. A lot less head thingy's in my opinion.

Cheers
Paul

[Shadow Catcher]

A great deal depends on what you use a donner vehicle. You could use as an example a Saab Sonett body, all fiberglass and only a couple of pieces, but rare (type III only 10,000 made, or a kit car reproduction that is all fiberglass. A body shell may not be too heavy.

[PaulC]

A great deal depends on what you use a donner vehicle. You could use as an example a Saab Sonett body, all fiberglass and only a couple of pieces, but rare (type III only 10,000 made, or a kit car reproduction that is all fiberglass. A body shell may not be too heavy.

He's already said he's using a Jetta. To big of a problem to sort out I reckon.

Now, if you build a separate, tandem axle chassis and drop the car shell on to it, you may be heading in the right direction. Then weight is the problem.

Cheers
Paul

[jnyjetta]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Paul, my question would then be: how does a car that is being towed behind an RV turn?

I know the weight is an issue but I'm not real concerned with it as I have been a car guy for many years. I have a modified big brake system on my BMW for racing that will offset stopping a great deal of the added weight. There are engine mods that will offset pulling it also. I know the BMW spec of 3500lbs is more about structural strength than stop and go.

the Jetta shell in question is 14' bumper to bumper and it will lose the front bumper to become the trailer.

[PaulC]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Paul, my question would then be: how does a car that is being towed behind an RV turn?

I know the weight is an issue but I'm not real concerned with it as I have been a car guy for many years. I have a modified big brake system on my BMW for racing that will offset stopping a great deal of the added weight. There are engine mods that will offset pulling it also. I know the BMW spec of 3500lbs is more about structural strength than stop and go.

the Jetta shell in question is 14' bumper to bumper and it will lose the front bumper to become the trailer.

If you have to ask that I would suggest you look at something else as a hobby You should know that it's all to do with the geometry of the pivoted a frame you use to attach said trailer to the TV.

Cheers
Paul

[jnyjetta]

Thank you again Paul for your insightful input and of course for your critique of my mathematical comprehension. I must interject that while I was not born all knowing as you obviously were, I have to ask questions to learn. While my endeavor may or may not succeed, I still have to ask; what the hell is the difference between towing a car behind an RV and towing it behind a car? Algebra, geometry, calculus, trigonometry, hell, even theoretical physics aren't going to state that the flat surface of my seven foot bumper is any different than the eight foot flat bumper of an RV. So please explain to me why I'm am so far removed from the concept as to remain a tent camper?

ALL THAT ASIDE: MY ORIGINAL QUESTION REMAINS UNANSWERED.

Does anyone have any insight they could share with me about converting an ENTIRE car shell into a trailer?

I can't imagine I'm the first to do this.

[myoung]

Does anyone have any insight they could share with me about converting an ENTIRE car shell into a trailer?

I can't imagine I'm the first to do this.

Why can't you imagine that you would be the first? Seems reasonable to me that someone would have to be the first to tackle something, even something so far removed from the realm of reason and common sense. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Enjoy the challenge and be sure to keep us informed about your progress. Be a trail blazer. Satisfy your desire. Don't listen to folks who say it can't be done; just demonstrate that it can and be happy about it. Perhaps we can all learn something new along the way.

I'll bet the first person who decided to put tomato sauce, cheese, and anchovies on top of a disk of crusty bread and call it a pizza was considered a bit crazy too.

[bobhenry]

I was toying with getting a companion silouette with a wood version of the Xb.

But I concider myself a carpenter not a autobody man.



I do like the under the hood "tongue box"

[jnyjetta]

That is very cool. The under hood tongue box is so versatile too.

Anyways, thanks for the support guys I am going to do it and I am confident it will work out great; I just wanted to see links, info, plans, or images that anyone else who tried this could share.

[PaulC]

Have fun. I'm sure with the attitude you have shown here that you will be successful with your plan.

Cheers
Paul

[angib]

It seems to me the easy way to do this is to attach a rigid-but-hinged A-frame to the front of the car - by that I mean an A-frame that can pivot up and down, but not side to side. After all, this is how toads are towed behind motorhomes - though then the tow vehicle is many times the size/weight of the toad.

But I don't see why it wouldn't work. I would be inclined to take the pinion out of the steering rack, so the rack was free to move from side to side as the trailer turns - but maybe having the pinion in would help damp any sway, so I'd make sure I could put it back afterwards, if I needed to. I'm sure the steering linkages (track rod arms) should be left in place so that both front wheels turn together.

Reversing should be OK, as I assume the tow vehicle will force the trailer front wheels to point the right way - on their own, the wheels would want to turn right to the lock stops. There will be a limit to the tightness of reverse turns, when the lock stops are reached, but that shouldn't be a major restriction.

It wouldn't be very hard to add hydraulic brakes with a suitable surge coupler - though it might take a bit of experimentation to find the right master cylinder bore.

[jss06]

Remove the steering column so there is no steering lock. Use an A-frame hitch as stated above. It will pull just like a towed car. Make sure it has good alignment or it will try to wander and destroy the front tires.

I would look into some way of using either surge or hydraulic over electric to activate the rear brakes on the VW. It really will help.

Don't forget you will also need to wire the taillights to the tow vehicle and possibly side marker lights as well.