Alabama Vintage Build

[Mbasaraba]

Good Morning,

Have been reading the site for a month or so after seeing a member from here having posted his tear drop build on Make blog.

My wife and I have a 1966 Chevy Sportvan we have been restoring.



We started with an inline 6 cylinder and TH350 auto tranny but I have been in the process of converting to a TBI 350 with 700R4 tranny. This gives us the power to have air and cruise, as well as having the benefit of fuel injection. Also makes it much easier to pull a camper or boat.

The vanning community does a lot of meets around the country and we dont really want to pull a big camper and so we have decided we want to build a smaller camper we can enjoy at the meets.

I am still doing research on what and how we want to build our camper, starting out with the frame and axle. I have a JDW2 tube bender and I plan on bending my frame instead of cut and weld. I am working on a CAD model now for the frame and deciding on an axle. I found a few on eBay that I am going to bid on.

I figured I would start my build thread on the absolute first step, deciding WHAT to build and to introduce ourselves.

My name is Matthew and my wife is Tammy.

[Mbasaraba]

Designing my CAD model and I need to know a couple of formulas for weight distribution.

Axle placement, is this calculated from the ball on the tongue?

examples, if trailer is 10 feet from ball to end, the axle is placed at 7 feet. Formula would be 1:0.70

Overall length is 15 feet, axle is placed at 10 feet from ball. Formula would be 1.5:1

Tongue length per trailer length?

Example, camper area is 10 feet, tongue needs to be 5 feet. Formula would be 2:1

Matthew

[KCStudly]

Axle placement is usually referenced from the rear of the frame. When doing moment calculations the rear is always fixed (and is therefore a good zero point), whereas the axle location and hitch are reaction points that can vary in both force and position.

I couldn't find the link at the moment, but if you seek out Angib's weight balance sheet and threads referencing it, you will find plenty of discussion on trailer balance.

Nice van.

[Mbasaraba]

Thank you for the info and the compliment on the van.

Looks like I can hold off on axle placement till I get closer to the end.

Wrapping up on my main frame model now so I can at least get that welded together.

Was thinking of bending the longest side pieces instead of cutting and welding but then I would be left with a 6.5 inch radius and I would need to curve the corners to match so I think I will cut and weld after all and gusset the bottoms.

I have noticed on a lot of builds that a frame work is laid out over the steel of 2x2 wood. Is there a reason the flooring isnt put directly to the steel? Is it a matter of convenience of being able to screw the plywood to the frame?

[KCStudly]

On a single ply floor that is usually only done when building over the fenders, or extending the floor larger than the trailer.

On a built up torsion box floor, a wood frame is sandwiched between two thinner plys and filled with board type insulation. The subframe gives the plywood a place to land for butt joints, as well as a stronger place to locate fasteners.

Plenty of people have screwed a single layer of ply (1/2 or 3/4) directly to the frame and then used cleats of 2x2 to join the walls to the floor.

[mezmo]

Hi Mbasaraba/Matthew & Tammy,

Welcome to the forum !

Nice van you've done up there. I remember riding in a similar
one way back in H.S. on a couple school trips.

I know you said you are just starting out, but do you have a direction
that your design will take ? One approach could be to do a take-off
on your van, similar to what the Dub-Box is for the VW van. http://www.dub-box.com/ .

This Foamie section thread has some aero info collected in it that may
be beneficial. http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=49036 . Sizing the TTT
to the tow vehicle could be very apropos possibly.

If you are bending frame/chassis parts, are you thinking of using steel tube
[1x1 e.g.] for the body framing as well ? If you bend the frame/chassis with
the 6.5in radius, that could be carried up in the body wall-corner which
would be very beneficial aero-wise.

Another question - If you go the Dub-Box like route, can you get the front Van
section of the Chevy vans like yours ? Using those as the front and rear walls
of a slouchy TTT might be an interesting look - sort of like those trailers you
see made from the same sheet metal pieces as their tow vehicles.

Have fun researching and designing, then building.

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo

P.S. It might be a good idea to do a short intro in the newbies section with a link
to this, your Build Journal thread. You'd get more exposure and that'd probably
result in more answers to questions you may have and such.

[jeff0520]

Welcome aboard.
My wife and I are in Huntsville. Maybe we'll see you around somewhere. Your project looks great so far.

[Mbasaraba]

Welcome aboard.
My wife and I are in Huntsville. Maybe we'll see you around somewhere. Your project looks great so far.

I live in Boaz (Near Guntersville) but work in Huntsville, long drive every day. Was looking at your build, that is alot like what we are aiming for.

If you ever need to weld or use of a plasma or painting system I have a full service shop, (30x60) just need to get my van wire harness back and installed so I can get it out of the shop! I guess if I had to I could push it out and back in but it would need a group to push that puppy out! She is a tank! LoL

[jeff0520]

I understand. Back in the day they used STEEL, and lots of it. If we really needed to move it, I have a tow strap for my 4x4.
I still have paint to do. Right now I have one coat of white over 2 coats of primer, but she looks a little "zebra stripey" in the right light. she really needs a couple more coats of white I think. Maybe some weekend when it's conveniant I can take you up on the paint booth

[Mbasaraba]

Here is a concept for bed so far, 6 x 12, might be over kill on the support structure?

Tubing size recommendation? I had this set with 2 inch outer rails with 1.5 inner which would be offset down .5 inches to allow the flooring sheets to flush the floor with the outer rail.

[KCStudly]

Yeah, too much steel.

Think airplane, not tank. The cabin is a big boxy structure that will support itself and the trailer frame.

Another way to look at it is that the front wall and bulkhead of the cabin hold the side walls up, and the side walls act like very deep beams that hold the trailer frame up, so as long as the tongue is attached rigidly, and the front xmbr is stout where the torque from the tongue is applied, then the rest needn't be so rugged.

Consider running your tongue A-frame under the front xmbr and tie it in to the main rails further back; much stronger.

There are lots of good examples of chassis design in the Trailer and Chassis Secrets forum.

Here's a look at mine, which is still kind of beefy compared to what some people use.




64" W x 9'-8' L plus tongue. The tongue and front xmbr are 2x2x3/16 wall tube; the mains and rear xmbr are 2x2x1/8 tube; and the intermediate xmbrs and tabs are all 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 x 1/8 inch angle steel. There are probably way more details than you can stand to read in my TPCE build thread.

Aggie79 (Tom) has a great picture of his Silver Beetle cabin under construction with it supported by only three jack stands, and he reports no sag with him seated in the doorway. I don't think he would mind if I show his pic here:


His build is a favorite of many people who like the traditional TD look, that anyone considering a build should read. It's on a custom frame, as well.

Another good reference, for a great quality build, with relatively basic features (in a good way) is Becky's "Lance and Becky's Sagwagon".

I hope I am not being too forward here in your build thread. It's just that you seemed to be asking for some guidance and there is a ton of information about different methods in these builds that I think you will probably find useful.

[Mbasaraba]

Not at all I appreciate the guidance!

I had seen this up on eBay for an axle but wondered if it would be too light weight for the size I want to build.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1500-Torsion-Axle-Wheels-Tire-NEW-RV-Trailer-Camper-Tear-Drop-ROCKWELL-AMERICAN-/130864198398?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e781d32fe&vxp=mtr

BTW, what is that axle you are using? Looks like the rear end out of my 66 Chevy. I have a couple of those but thought it would be way too heavy. I could also pull the ring gears and leave the pins and C-clips to keep the axles in place then it would be the same width as the van and use the same rims and tires. I could fab my own spring perches and shock mounts. I even have an extra sway bar laying around here somewhere.

[KCStudly]

No, it's a std. Dexter D35 straight round tube (w/camber…technically not straight); 77-1/2 hub face-to-hub face (a little wider than needed, but is a common stock size, so not special ordered); 5 on 4-1/2 bolt circle w/ 1/2-20 wheel studs (Jeep TJ, early Ford Mustang, etc. pattern); and large electric brakes. The brake backing plates must have thrown you off. Here are a couple more pics.




I went beefy on the 3500 lb. axle, suspension and brakes because of the cross country trip and forest service roads that I intend to travel on. Although the big axle is heavier, it has the bigger spindles and bearings, and the larger brakes. My springs are long and soft Jeep YJ's rears which derate the capacity to about 1500 lbs. I chose the longer/wider springs, and added shocks and bump stops for a smoother ride.

All of the above is probably gross over design for most applications, but since you asked...

The deal you linked to seems like a very good one, price wise, but is probably way too narrow for your needs. Unless you are building 4 ft wide (which is seldom recommend for two people), or are at ease sectioning an extension in the center, I would pass on it.

Consider starting with a boat trailer. They usually have lots of adjustment built in, the axles are usually set rearward already, and the long tongues are easy to shorten. The fact that they are usually galvanized can be a plus (rust proofing) or minus if fab work is needed to adapt (toxic fumes when welded).

I babble. Tell us more about what you want in your design (profile, TD, standy, width, length, needed features, type of camping, galley needs, etc.) and we can give you more useful input. So far we know that you want easily towed and it sounds like weekend rod runs. So it sounds like you want it to be simple and comfortable for over night type trips, and a nostalgic profile.

Have you looked at the "Design Library" (a link to Angib's site) under the "Design Resources" tab in the header above?

[Mbasaraba]

I am thinking 60-72 inches wide, I dont want it sticking way out from the side of the van, which is about 72 inches wide. These vans have the aerodynamics of a BRICK, flat nose vanners is what they call them. Thinking 10-12 feet long, maybe too long? I am thinking only 5 feet wide I wont be able to lay down straight so that will mean us laying length wise. Maybe our feet go under cabinets or part of the galley. If the galley is taking off 3 feet of the length then that leaves 8 feet of interior for an inside.

Tammy isnt a "roughing it" kind of girl, I will be honest. LoL. I grew up poor as dirt and we had a family of 5 that would camp out in a 4 man tent in the middle of BFE in South Dakota or some other place. Driving a 1976 Volare station wagon from North Dakota to Texas then up through California to Seattle then back across to North Dakota with 3 kids in the back.

With that in mind the camper needs to be able to have a table to sit at, standing up not a must. She isnt much of a squatter but she will either be squatting or using a portapotie. LoL. Galley I would like the flip up clam shell, this seems very intimidating to me, getting the perfect alignment and having it look right. I will be installing a nice Honda generator for running fridge and air conditioning, also a MUST here in the south.

Shape, I really like Jeff's style from his build.

Found this one on Ebay and I really like it but a bit blunt in the front so I would be looking to slope the front a little bit.



I thought about trying to find the nose of a van like ours and build it back from there but think that would be kind of cheesy, just not our thing.

2 inch tubing would be too big for the camper shell frame IMO, very heavy. 1 inch would make it hard to insulate so kind of up in the air about that part of it still. I deal more in steel than wood. I build these full body reclining patio/porch swings. (This one was made for a queen size mattress but all I had was a full size at the time.)



So I guess I am looking at a tear drop front with a Scotty back and an angled clam instead of round, this would make it a lot easier to build IMO. Maybe even just a door in the back that laid down flat instead of a "Clam" door bubble type, the "Appliances" would just need to be recessed enough for the door to close.

[Mbasaraba]

I am not a Sketchup pro but I threw this together in 10 minutes. Need to angle the back a bit more I think but it was just something quick to have an idea.

60 inches tall, 72 inches wide and 120 inches long.